Pistons vs. Turbines Throwdown

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:05 pm

Here's what I've found so far:

-20 Jun 1965, MiG-17, A-1 Skyraider, USS Midway, VA-25, LT Clinton B. Johnson and LTJG Charles W. Hartman III (shared victory)

- 9 Oct 1966, MiG-17, A-1 Skyraider, USS Intrepid, VA-176 LTJG William T. Patton

this site details the encounter states that probalbility that 2 additional Mig 17s may have been downed.

http://skyraider.org/skyassn/sartapes/migkill/migkill.htm

Recording of VA-176 MiG Kill Debriefing Tape

http://skyraider.org/skyassn/sartapes/migkill/migkill.ram

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:45 pm

March 31, 1945, ME 262, Lt. Harrison "Bud" Tordoff, P-51D 44-72364 "UPUPA EPOPS", 353rd FG/352nd

Quote:

On March 31, 1945, Upupa Epops was on a bomber escort mission high above Germany when it encountered a pair of 262s. Although the jets were faster than the P-51, Upupa Epops had an altitude advantage when it pounced. One 262 was hit by .50-caliber machine-gun fire from the P-51's six Brownings. After a short chase, its 262 pilot bailed out, and the jet spun in and crashed.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:09 pm

I am away from home for a few days, but I have a print of late model Griffon engine Spitfires shotting down a Me 262. I think it says first jet kill. When I'm back I'll try to get the date and details.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:17 pm

Not quite a dogfight, but didn't the Brits use Tempests to chase down a few V-1 Buzz Bombs (technically a jet?)

Also, did any P-47s knock down and Me-262s? The T-bolts usually operated at low level by that point, and most 262 kills were done by catching them in the pattern.

SN

Tim Landers · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:45 pm

John D. Landers
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/must ... arch44.jpg

BLR · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 2:47 pm **Posts:** 425

Canadian Flight Lieutenant John Garland (DFC) had four victories including a Me262. He was shot down by flak in Feb/45 and became a POW. He flew a Hawker Tempest.

Brian....

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:29 pm

Thinking back on the print, I believe the pilot is Canadian, but it is definitely not a Tempest in this incident, there are several Spitfires, likely MKIXVs. I am pretty sure there is a date, perhaps 44 and the pilot's name. I'll be back by Tue and post on it then. When did the 262 go into acitve service?

BLR · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 2:47 pm **Posts:** 425

Thanks Bill,

I’m not really sure about the details behind this kill and don’t know what aircraft he was flying at the time. Based on the dates I have it shows Garland as converting to Spits Aug/43 and the Tempest in Sept/44, his 262 kill date was shown as Dec 3/44 so assumed it was a Tempest. If you can shed some light on this, it’d be much appreciated.

Bill Greenwood wrote:

When did the 262 go into acitve service?

Oct 3 1944 ?

BTW, doing a little searching on the subject, I found this website. http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2jetk.htm

Brian…

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:16 pm

Now here's one that I had not heard of: :shock:

Found here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avbtsv1.html

Quote:

In 1966, one Mohawk reputedly shot down a North Vietnamese MiG-17 fighter with 70 millimeter unguided rockets. The North Vietnamese pilot made a pass at one of a pair of Mohawks, the other loosed a salvo of rockets at the fighter, and to the surprise of all, managed to hit the MiG. However, one Mohawk was shot down by a North Vietnamese MiG in 1969, evening the score. This was the only Army fixed-wing aircraft loss in air-to-air combat during the war.

Is this news to anyone else? Can anyone corroborate these events??

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

maxum96 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:32 pm

Shay wrote:

Now here's one that I had not heard of: :shock:

Found here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avbtsv1.html

Quote:

In 1966, one Mohawk reputedly shot down a North Vietnamese MiG-17 fighter with 70 millimeter unguided rockets. The North Vietnamese pilot made a pass at one of a pair of Mohawks, the other loosed a salvo of rockets at the fighter, and to the surprise of all, managed to hit the MiG. However, one Mohawk was shot down by a North Vietnamese MiG in 1969, evening the score. This was the only Army fixed-wing aircraft loss in air-to-air combat during the war.

Is this news to anyone else? Can anyone corroborate these events??

Shay
____________

Semper Fortis

While the OV-1 Mohawk is a prop plane, it is turbine powered. The original question was "pistons vs. turbines".

I know, anal comment.

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:42 pm

maxum96 wrote:

While the OV-1 Mohawk is a prop plane, it is turbine powered. The original question was "pistons vs. turbines".

I know, anal comment.

Well seeing as I started the thread....I'm exercising "Author's Prerogative"

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:12 am

Shay, I am back home and looked at my print. THE LAST OF THE FEW by Frank Wotton. "Oct 5. 1944 Flt lt Headly Everhard draws first blood from a Me262" as other RCAF Spitfires close in. The jet has cannon holes in the tail, a few in the fuselage, and the right engine appears to be on fire. They are at low altitude with one Spit firing from 6 oclock high and two more off to the right side. The Spits look like MKIXs, but are painted without exact detail. They definetly have 2 cannon and 4 machine gun wiings. They don't look like XIVs, but could be; they certainly aren't Tempest.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:26 am

Sure enough,
on the website BLR gave is Hedley Everhard with one jet kill. Does anyone have more details on this?

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:36 pm

Thanks for the headsup

Very nice painting, Frank was very talented.

Makes me wonder why this scenario played out the way it did? Was it a unexperienced pilot in the 262? Luck? Bad machinery on the part of the Schwalbe?

I wonder how the manueverability of the ME 262 compares to the Spit's

on a unrelated question Bill does your spit carry it's armorment? Or not to save weight?

Thanks

Shay

Shay · **Posted:** Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:43 pm

When it comes to a confrontation between a Prop versus Jet.

Is speed (or the lack of it) combined with manueverability the decideing factor? Of is it just plain luck?

To some extent I would the slower aircraft might have an advantage over the faster MIG. In being that the MIGs would transverse more airspace to turn around than a Propdriven aircraft would. Giving the prop pilot ample time to bring guns to bare.

I've always heard "Speed is Life..."

Obivioulsy this is not always the case.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

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