Old 666

[phil65]

So I was watching the episode of Old 666 on Dogfights for the 100th time. The narrator claims the B-17 had 19, 50 caliber machine guns. I know the show is not 100% accurate, but I simply can't place 19 guns on a B-17. I believe the gunships had only 18, and they had the chin turret. Being nice I can only come up with 16, any thoughts ?

Phil

Last edited by phil65 on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

[junkman9096]

"Dogfights"=History Channel.

"And I suggest you let that one marinate for a while" Letterkenny Problems

[JohnB]

As everyone knows, the G had 13 guns.
Odd for a documentary to make that blatant of an error.

[Mark Allen M]

Here's my opinion on the validity of (19) 50 caliber machine guns on B-17E 41-2666


Ole 666


Here's Ole 666 with twin 50 caliber machine guns everywhere there was a single. If this is true you'd have the following:

Twin 50's in the top turret. (2)
Twin 50's in the Radio room pointing up. (You can barely make them out in this photo). (2)
Twin 50's each side waste gunner positions. (4)
Twin 50's in the ball turret. (2)
Twin 50's in the tail. (2)

The nose area is where it can get convoluted but it could be done to have (7) additional 50's up there.

Below are several misc. B-17E photos of the nose area to decide for yourself whether 666 could have had enough to equal (19).

[phil65]

Thanks Mark,

Great photos as always....
The show had the nose resembling your photo of "Jane".
I had 4 guns in the nose. I mean how many people are up there...2 ? That's how I came up with 16 guns.

Phil

[JohnTerrell]

The book Lucky 666, about the crew and airplane, goes into some detail about the armament changes that were made to that aircraft. The single 30-cal in the nose was replaced with two 50-cals. The radio operator's single 30-cal was replaced with twin-mounted 50-cals. The waist gun positions also had twin-mounted 50-cals each. A hole was cut in the lower fuselage in front of the tail wheel for an additional gun. The pilot, Jay Zeamer, had a fixed gun added to the nose that he could fire himself via a button attached to the yoke. There was no gun sight added for this, but he had the gun bore-sighted to a point aligned with a row of rivets ahead of the windscreen.

Last edited by JohnTerrell on Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dan Jones]

I'm surprised that the plexiglass nose would support the weight of that many guns, especially given the cold temps at altitude and the vibration of the guns when firing. That's fairly impressive.

[Adam Kline]

Like everything, they don't make things now like they use too.

[Steve Birdsall]

I doubt anybody will ever unravel this, but anyone reading Lucky 666 should also read Clint Hayes' review of it on Amazon. I'll attempt to link directly to it. Well worth reading and, in my opinion, accurate.

https://www.amazon.com/Lucky-666-Impossible-Mission-Changed/product-reviews/1476774862/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_kywd?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1&filterByKeyword=Clint

[Michel Lemieux]

Freaking awesome Mark as usual!

Love the pic on the different nose glass!!!

[Spitty]

Well fair is fair..If the Jerries could come headon with cannons and machine guns why not even the odds....

[Michel Lemieux]

What is the purpose of the opening trap door in the nose glass?

[Archer]

To wipe bugs and dirt from the flat center panel for the bombsight.

[Michel Lemieux]

ahhhh....makes a lot of sense! Tks

[DH82EH]

No, I don't think so.
That's a "beer can window" if I ever saw one

Sorry, couldn't resist.