Warbird Information Exchange

So I was watching the episode of Old 666 on Dogfights for the 100th time. The narrator claims the B-17 had 19, 50 caliber machine guns. I know the show is not 100% accurate, but I simply can't place 19 guns on a B-17. I believe the gunships had only 18, and they had the chin turret. Being nice I can only come up with 16, any thoughts ?

Phil

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A man's got to know his limitations.

"Dogfights"=History Channel.

"And I suggest you let that one marinate for a while" Letterkenny Problems

As everyone knows, the G had 13 guns.
Odd for a documentary to make that blatant of an error.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Here's my opinion on the validity of (19) 50 caliber machine guns on B-17E 41-2666


Ole 666


Here's Ole 666 with twin 50 caliber machine guns everywhere there was a single. If this is true you'd have the following:

Twin 50's in the top turret. (2)
Twin 50's in the Radio room pointing up. (You can barely make them out in this photo). (2)
Twin 50's each side waste gunner positions. (4)
Twin 50's in the ball turret. (2)
Twin 50's in the tail. (2)

The nose area is where it can get convoluted but it could be done to have (7) additional 50's up there.

Below are several misc. B-17E photos of the nose area to decide for yourself whether 666 could have had enough to equal (19).

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Zero Surprise!!...

Thanks Mark,

Great photos as always....
The show had the nose resembling your photo of "Jane".
I had 4 guns in the nose. I mean how many people are up there...2 ? That's how I came up with 16 guns.

Phil

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A man's got to know his limitations.

The book Lucky 666, about the crew and airplane, goes into some detail about the armament changes that were made to that aircraft. The single 30-cal in the nose was replaced with two 50-cals. The radio operator's single 30-cal was replaced with twin-mounted 50-cals. The waist gun positions also had twin-mounted 50-cals each. A hole was cut in the lower fuselage in front of the tail wheel for an additional gun. The pilot, Jay Zeamer, had a fixed gun added to the nose that he could fire himself via a button attached to the yoke. There was no gun sight added for this, but he had the gun bore-sighted to a point aligned with a row of rivets ahead of the windscreen.

I'm surprised that the plexiglass nose would support the weight of that many guns, especially given the cold temps at altitude and the vibration of the guns when firing. That's fairly impressive.

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

Like everything, they don't make things now like they use too.

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I doubt anybody will ever unravel this, but anyone reading Lucky 666 should also read Clint Hayes' review of it on Amazon. I'll attempt to link directly to it. Well worth reading and, in my opinion, accurate.

https://www.amazon.com/Lucky-666-Impossible-Mission-Changed/product-reviews/1476774862/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_kywd?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1&filterByKeyword=Clint

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www.B17BlackJack.com

Freaking awesome Mark as usual!

Love the pic on the different nose glass!!!

Well fair is fair..If the Jerries could come headon with cannons and machine guns why not even the odds....

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If the CO ask,s you to be Tail End Charlie...Just Shoot Him..A Piece of Cake

What is the purpose of the opening trap door in the nose glass?

To wipe bugs and dirt from the flat center panel for the bombsight.

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A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net

ahhhh....makes a lot of sense! Tks

No, I don't think so.
That's a "beer can window" if I ever saw one

Sorry, couldn't resist.