The Unofficial 2015 Oshkosh thread...

[k5083]

Great pics, looks like a pretty good year. What were they doing in the back of that PB4Y, filiming a beer commercial during the flypast?

August

[glider90]

"What were they doing in the back of that PB4Y, filming a beer commercial during the flypast"
I was wondering if anyone notices that...close crop:

[glider90]

Sierra Sue is smooth, but not polished at all in most places. Here is the tail with the ink stamping still visible.

[Dan K]

"What were they doing in the back of that PB4Y, filming a beer commercial during the flypast"
I was wondering if anyone notices that...close crop:

Although I don't recognize the physique on the right, that's Lindsey Goss (wrench with Gosshawk) on the left. I'm assuming that's the best spot for her to keep watch on all those R-2600's while they fly.

Is liquid refreshment during flight a problem?

Last edited by Dan K on Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Dan K]

All that detailing to get the paint job accurate and then polishing the skin to a mirror-like finish spoils the look. I'm not a fan of the over-polished warbirds. They look nice and shiny but far from authentic.

Anyone who believes "nice and shiny" schemes aren't authentic is denying historical, photographic evidence.

And I'm not talking about the assembly line either. "Bright and shiny" was evident in the combat zones as well...yes, even a finish you could see your reflection in.

Dave: You don't have to like them, but let's keep our historical stories straight.

[Dave Homewood]

I will consider myself told, then.

[Dan K]

And now for something completely different...






I wanted to give a shout out for the kids of the Young Aviators program of EAA Chapter 43 (Erie, Colorado) and their volunteer leaders.

Not only did this group of kids and adults assemble a replica front end of a B-25, but many of them also spent the week training young Airventure visitors on the various crew positions. I didn't get a chance to examine the interior, but it's my understanding that it is equipped with a variety of simulators at the different positions.


http://www.youngaviators43.com/


Did anyone take the opportunity to examine the interior?

[JohnTerrell]

There isn't any polish on "Sierra Sue II", it is all factory-original clad finish (both shiny and dull finishes, as per original). Note that throughout its stay at Oshkosh, they even left the exhaust stains remain.

This photo on Flickr sums up quite well the amount of wartime authenticity and originality of "Sierra Sue II". Non-polished metal, original WWII-period aluminum watermarks, remanufactured original WWII-period spec rivets in all of their original period-correct finishes (silver anodized, blue anodized, and yellow iridite), hand-painted nose art, factory-original primers and paints (not the modern look-alike paints seen in other restorations), a P-38 mirror mounted to the canopy (as done on the aircraft when in Theatre), much of the stencils across the exterior of the aircraft were applied using original factory ink stamps, the correct N-9 gun sight is fitted (not the common K-14), the original and working WWII radio, and of course so much more.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126942697 ... 2/sizes/k/

And of course the coolest thing about all of it is that it is a combat vet survivor, not a data plate rebuild, and is restored in every detail to be as it originally looked in 1945 (weathering continues to be added over time - as I recall Paul Ehlen, the owner/pilot, mentioning, when he flew it into the Aircorps Aviation's open house some months back, when it had been raining prior to it arriving, when he taxied in and shut the engine down he mentioned to Erik Hokuf that they now had the mud in the wheel wells - adding to the extra level of wartime accuracy). Of course everyone has their favorite restorations, but this is the closest anyone has come to presenting a restored North American Aviation product as if it had just come out of 1944/45. Unfortunately I don't think the Oshkosh judging gives extra points for most of the type of authentic factory-correct details seen in "Sierra Sue II", like the factory overspray and streaks in the primer, where, as per original, some parts were dipped in primer rather than sprayed.

Also, the lady in the back of the PB4Y is Lindsey Goss, a warbird restoration and maintenance veteran and a very integral part of the GossHawk Unlimited team. As I recall, she was put in the spot of managing the trip to and stay at Oshkosh for the PB4Y.

[Red Tail]

Dave,

I know what you’re saying and you’re correct. The mirror finishes often seen today are indeed beautiful to look at but I must disagree with Dan in that they are far from accurate. Maintenance crew’s during the war didn’t have the time or tools to create and maintain such a finish. The photos Dan provided show a finish that while shiny enough to see oneself in, are far from mirror like. It’s the owner’s choice of course. They are stunning and I admit to marveling over the appearance, fully appreciating the labor it takes to create and maintain it.
Two comments we constantly get are: “this must be a restoration in progress?” and “what paint scheme will we apply when finished?” It’s an educational process and one of the reasons some of owners are driving for a 100% period correct aircraft to share with the public. Sue’s finish is “Unimproved” natural metal is as it would have appeared very shortly after delivery to the unit. Over time it will gain patina that will give it a period correct combat look like Doc Richards Happy Jacks Go Buggy.

John

[Dan K]

Dave,

...The photos Dan provided show a finish that while shiny enough to see oneself in, are far from mirror like...

John

John, a surface that reflects one's image is FAR from mirror-like??

Semantically-speaking, we are obviously on different pages.

[Red Tail]

Dave,

...The photos Dan provided show a finish that while shiny enough to see oneself in, are far from mirror like...

John

John, a surface that reflects one's image is FAR from mirror-like??

Semantically-speaking, we are obviously on different pages.

Yes, that’s correct. A mill finish will reflect ones image, however it isn’t even close to the clarity of a mirror. Do you have a piece of mill finish 2024 alclad hanging in your bathroom for your mirror? I thought not! These airplanes were delivered with mill finish and maintained in mill finish. I think you know what we’re all driving at. None of them were polished to mirror finishes so commonly seen today.

Going back into lurk mode again. Not worth posting here.

[JohnTerrell]

John, based on your comments, and some of what I've also read/seen online (or lack there of), the same bit of experience that "Sierra Sue II" is having, now that it is on display for the public, is like what Bob Baker's "Little Rebel" experienced too. When "Little Rebel" debuted, most didn't understand how authentic the details of that aircraft are, and most people simply did not know what to make of it based on its appearance (I remember hearing the same about the FHC P-47 - another incredibly authentic restoration). Like "Sierra Sue II", the "Little Rebel" restoration features non-polished aluminum in original mill-factory clad finishes of shiny and dull. Also, like "Sierra Sue II", the "Little Rebel" restoration has all of the acid etching on the metal panels where spot welding occurred, as per original, and is also filled with only original period correct hardware, flat paint, hand-painted nose art, etc. Despite all of this, everyone would walk right past "Little Rebel", not understanding how authentic its appearance is, to photograph the other Mustangs with perfect unblemished metal finishes, glossy paint, etc.

Hope Bob Baker is doing well these days and still flying his Mustangs - I noticed they were absent from Oshkosh this year.

[JohnTerrell]

BTW, as touched on earlier in this thread, "Sierra Sue II" had its lightning bolts (one on each side) applied while it was on display at Oshkosh. Last year, after the restoration was completed and the aircraft was flown, an artist was hired to apply the nose art by hand, and done to match the original artwork based on the only known surviving WWII photos of the aircraft. In one wartime photo showing the aircraft with the nose art, there isn't a lightning bolt, but then in another photo taken sometime shortly after, the lightning bolt was there. The same artist that applied the nose art last year, came and applied the lightning bolt markings at Oshkosh last week. Those lightning bolts were the last markings added to "Sierra Sue II" both originally during WWII and now today.

The lightning bolt on the left-side was added during the Warbirds in Review program. The Warbirds in Review program that featured "Sierra Sue II" and "Berlin Express" can be seen here (you'll need to scroll down): http://www.flyingondemand.com/WarbirdsInReview.html
(I'm really glad they're providing these to be seen on the internet now, as I've always wanted to sit-in on them, but have never made the time for them in all the years I've attended Airventure.)

Down the line, it will be great to continue to see more restorations from Aircorps Aviation with the same details as "Sierra Sue II", with their bare metal P-51C and razorback P-47D projects. The P-47D "Dottie Mae" restoration, also a bare metal aircraft, will be another great one to see completed, having much of the same type of details.

[Taylor Stevenson]

John T is spot on. Sierra Sue and Little Rebel are incredible in their authenticity (Little Rebel not taking home the grand prize that year was a shame). Bob is a wealth of information on period hardware and finishes and is a great guy to boot.

Not to incite a riot, but I am curious as to how many difficulty point the Mosquito, as a type, was awarded. Sometimes that makes all the difference. The Mosquito is impressive in its own right, but my opinion is Sierra Sue takes the cake. I haven't seen as much detail of, nor know as much about, Berlin Express, so I'm not factoring her in. For Sierra Sue to be a wartime vet, restored in her original markings, to the degree of authenticity that she was, I think Ehlen and Aircorps should take her to NAHI at Reno. They'd likely do very well.

[Dave Homewood]

If "Little Rebel" had been restored with an absolutely 'authentic' finish, it would have been painted silver and would be marked as NZ2406 of the RNZAF, because that is what that aircraft was. However I really don't mind that Bob Baker chose to give it a different identity, the story of his two Mustangs made to look like the two flown by the twin Generals is pretty neat.

Regardless of the Sierra Sue finish, there are definitely some other Mustangs and some T-6's in this thread which are so shiny they'd blind you with their dazzle in the sunshine - which look nice but do not look like they would have originally.