Warbird Information Exchange

There's a third Canadian-marked Hurricane out there...Mk.XII 5418 at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin AB wears the late-war green/grey camo with C-type roundels on the sides, and no spinner. When completed years ago it was reportedly flyable, but was not flown; the engine was test run though. Nice machine.

S.

...Really putting the cat among the pigeons, I'll suggest another possible choice VWoC could make in pursuit of a two-seater fighter to supplement the Kittyhawk. How about turning the Mk.IX Spit project into a "Grace T9"? The engineering for that has already been done and several successful conversions made during restorations...besides which, the Spits are dual control, not just passenger-capable...

S.

I like Steve's idea slightly better but am still an advocate of restoring and representing the aircraft as it actually was.
Two seating a Spitfire makes more sense and VWC could offer rides and Spitfire Training as is done at Duxford
Would be a more viable way to make money

Terry confirms that two seating the Hurricane would alter its appearance so IMHO this would not be accurately educating anyone.
True it is always a pleasure to share the flying experience with others but it should not be done by sacrificing historical accuracy.
We have two many examples of our Canadian History already being "modified " so that todays generations are not getting the true picture.
I am a supporter of VWC and the aircraft are theirs to do with how they wish but if one of the VWC mandates is to educate then it should be done fully and accurately.
Yes taking a person for a ride in an aircraft is educational but it should not be at the expense of modifying an historical aircraft into something it is not . It sets a bad example about the importance of restoration, preservation and respect for the artifact itself. Not to mention the reputation of the organization.
At present VWC is only toying with the idea. As Dave H said they are trying to come up with ways to generate revenue. I fully sympathize with them and the many other collections that are in the same boat and wish all nothing but success.
Steve T's idea may just be the better idea.
I sure the powers to be at VWC will really look into all of this very carefully before making any rash decisions.

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

Doing some rough calculations, If you take the 30 lbs of ballast out of the tail, you would be able to add more than 60 lbs to the second cockpit/ mid fuselage area. The original IFF equipment is another 40 lbs. that could be removed from the tail. The pilot's armor plating weighs 70 lbs. but would move the C.G. in the wrong direction. The oxygen system can be removed, and the battery compartment can be put forward of the firewall if not already.
"Stay green,and growing like a plant, or die" Ray Croc, founder of MacDonalds restaurants. The revenue from the world's only two seat Hurricane could bring in enough revenue to help pay to restore the Spitfire at a faster rate.
Fleet16B made an eloquent argument. However, there really aren't any two place Spitfires available for rides in the western hemisphere, only TF-51s. whether it is this one or another, a two place Hurricane would create more interest and might spur more rebuilds to airworthy and also recoveries from Russia, etc.
Look at the insatiable worldwide demand for P-51's.

Any chance of a photo or two of some of these VWoC projects? Maybe help illustrate the space in question on both the Hurri and the MkIX

Andy

I wonder how many former Hurricane ground crew/ from WW2 are still with us these days? They gotta be in their 80's and 90's. I wonder if they would refuse their first Hurricane ride because their "purist" psyche just wouldn't let 'em get past the fact that RCAF 5447 never before had a second seat in her and she looked a little different? Or that she was the wrong color? Too bad this isn't 10 or 20 years ago...I bet a bunch of 60 and 70 year old veterans would be lighting up this thread to sign up.

Youse guys have a chance to have the only 2-seat Hurricane on the planet in almost 70 years...nobody has had the privilege of being a passenger in one since then....and yer clucking no????

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Look at the blog entries on the right. Once you click on a blog item, you can continuously click on "OLDER POST" in the lower right corner".

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Home/tabid/4 ... fault.aspx

Here's a photo taken from the VWoC blogspot. It's taken looking up into the "fastback" portion. As you can see, it's an empty plywood shell.



It's difficult to photograph the portion below that, within the metal framework of the fuselage, where the passenger would sit. Here is part of it. It is crisscrossed swith bracing wires. This bracing function would have to be reproduced by alternate means if a pax seat was there, probably by gussets and "knees" (boatbuilding term).



Terry, thanks for the words about our flight together. (I still owe you some stick time.) Regarding the 30 lbs of ballast, that's good news indeed. The only concern is that the C of G not move too far forward when flying solo (remember the aeroplane is nose-heavy at landing), but of course we could secure a ballast-package in the back seat for solo flight that has the required result.

Blogspot http://vintagewingsofcanada.blogspot.ca ... te_20.html

Dave

Dave
Thanks for posting the pics , gives everyone a better idea of the proposal.
What are the thoughts on the passenger being able to see outside?
Skinning the doghouse with plexiglass or just installing a small window ?

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

Valid point about the vets wanting a ride in a Hurricane and many many vets have been taken for
rides over the years. I have flown many myself.
However the other side of the coin is that we owe it to these vets to commemorate them by preserving
and accurately portraying these aircraft as tributes to their service and sacrifice. There in lies the true mandate of these collections. Unfortunately as has been stated revenue often dictates over mandate and accuracy .
A sad reality but it has been proven time and time again that these issues can be solved by other means.

One question should be asked. If the majority of money was being generated thru rides.( which most collections say is not the major revenue source) then maybe aircraft capable of carrying passengers should
be acquired instead of jeopardizing authenticity.
This thread has been a very good discussion and it will be interesting to see where VWC goes with this proposal.
The biggest hurdle may yet to come.
As Dave H has stated it may not be feasible due to safety and insurance may be another issue.

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

I still don't see a "permanent" jeopardization of authenticity here. There is nothing that appears to suggest the aircraft couldn't revert to stock at some point in its later life. There is a possibility to display an extinct modification of the Hurricane...dunno if I'd count on it as a major source of cash influx, but it's sure nice to have the only one on planet Earth!

As for buying another one to generate ride revenue, well there goes the budget!

Nice chat Cam, keep up the good work!

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

It may not be the only one there has been mention of Hawker Restorations converting a Mark 1 to a two seat configuration. Anyone else heard this?

_________________
“Try to fly in the middle of the air. The edges are filled with mountains and oceans and rocks and it’s much harder to fly there.”

It's not like the conversion of the P-80 into the T-33 , or the A-4 into the TA-4 , where they grafted a huge section into the fuselage and greatly increased the length of the canopy.
There were three or more squadrons that did the conversions in the field, in a war zone, during combat operations, right? Would be a good idea to glean the existing photos of those aircraft to find clues of what they came up with in the field.
Last, I believe there is a 28gallon/168 lb. fuel tank in the fuselage forward of the instrument panel. Could this be enlarged? If enlarged and filled it could offset the weight/C.G. of the second seat. This fuel could be held as the flight reserve. Additional fuel could be carried in the wings.

Precisely...no compromise in historical authenticity...straight from the theater of operations:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlea ... ricane.htm

_________________
It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Yes I say do it. If it gets a veteran who flew or maintained one up in a Hurricane I'm all for it. And if it looks a little different than a single seater, well people can be educated about the two seat Hurricanes that did operate during the war now cant they? And while we are talking about authenticity pretty sure all those two seater Spitfires aren't wearing the right paint schemes (oh dear god I'm talking about paint now..... )