Dan Newcomb wrote:
In my 58 years I have sadly witnessed the softening and down playing of what happened in WWII. There are many reasons for this, some political, some economic and I am sure a desire to forgive and forget. Guilt also plays a part. We all want to think that the other guy is just like us and if we could just sit down and have a couple of beers we could work things out. It is hard for most of us to believe that there are nasty mean disgusting people out there that really like to kill. It is hard for us to believe there are governments that will do anything including murder to further their goals. We like to think that we are all moral nice people and that given a decent childhood with loving parents we will all live together in one big harmonious family of love.
It is always amazing to me that as soon as this discussion starts, someone accuses those who believe life, war, and America are filled with nuance and not always perfect every time--get accused of being tree hugging pinko fag commies.
*puts flower in helmet netting*
Why is it so hard to imagine there are people alive today who have seen the awfulness that humanity can do, and who still believe that actually looking at everyones role can be an important part of learning from it?
Dan Newcomb wrote:
Someone in this thread talked about noble causes.
The Nazis perceived a civilization without Jews and exterminated millions of them. Oh what a noble cause!
Someone questioned if these regimes were evil. I think they were. Personally it is hard for me to define evil any better.
Certainly the Nazis wanted to wipe out the Jews. However, it is duplicitous to claim that every German was a Nazi. Nor was every Nazi a german. Nor did it necessarily follow that any of the above were absolutely and finally eviil to their core just because Dan Newcomb wants to think so. It is ridiculous to claim that there weren't heroic Germans. Of course there were. And many believed that fighting ~ first to win Germany's place in the sun, avenge the treason of WWI, and later just to defend Germany from Russia was quite noble. Being misguided doesn't remove the good intent.
Again, to refuse to admit that they could be and were quite heroic ignores reality, is dangerous, and demands a lack of though from myself that I refuse to bow to.
Dan Newcomb wrote:
To equate the two atom bombs dropped on Japan with the wanton brutality and butchery of the Japanese is sickening. We killed more Japanese with firebomb raids then we did with the atom bombs. The bombs SAVED lives. American lives. They did exactly what they were designed to do. END THE WAR. We even warned the Japanese before we dropped them. The proof is that we had to drop TWO. The fanatical Japanese government actually considered continuing the war.
You have got to be kidding. This argument is long dead. FInd a new cat to swing
The only reason we dropped the bombs was Russia.
Quote:
"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."[78][79]
~~Eisenhower~~
"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.[82]
"The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman.[82]
Dan Newcomb wrote:
Arguing over what is heroic is about as useless as arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
My point. We were right! They were wrong! I’m damned glad we won!
Dan
I am pretty sure that having a bronze star with a V and an oak leaf on it does count as heroic. At least that is what the Army said. And generally you want heroic types to fight your wars. So certainly it is not "useless". And not very difficult to do if you are willing to look honestly at the facts. Which many Americans are not willing to do.
My "point" : if we don't look at what happened, how will we ever know what happened?
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