Warbird Information Exchange

There were war crimes tribunals in Japan at the end of the Second World War, however the Emperor (and others) was(were) spared for resasons to do with incipient-Cold War politics.

Very well said. Whether you're looking at things from the perspective of a historian or a first hand witness, interpreting the past is not always as simple as it may appear at first glance.

What I mean is that I have a choice, I will buy something made in the U.S. first before buying something form overseas. My father still works in a steel mill that makes metal for Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. So I try to buy something form them. So if every one was in the S.S., who were the guys that wore black in those special units?

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

You mean those Ford, Dodge and Chevys that are made in Mexico and Canada? What about Dodge's parent company that is based in Europe, and Ford's largest division that is based in Europe? I believe close to 85% of the Ford Mustang is made in other countries.

Why not buy a TOYOTA that IS made right here in the US? They are not only are built here, but in doing so provide jobs for US workers that others "AMERICAN" car makers have sent those jobs to other countries because of their "cheap" labor. Is THAT morally right?

How about motorcycles, good 'old Harley Davidson made in the USA right? WRONG, they are assembled here, but 75% of their parts are also made in other countries. It is very frustrating when I am doing maintenance on my Harley that I have to have both Metric AND SAE tools handy.

Don't be so closed minded about things being "made in the USA", because not much really is anymore.

I disagree that the Toyota is as American as you say. My brother-in law's car is not. Once again his Toyota sticker said that it was 99% from hiroshima. While I have been to the plants that make the Ford F-150 in Detroit, and the plant in Toledo, OH that makes the jeep Wrangler. This is a battle we will never settle with eachother. And I agree to dis agree, and know that we are all entitled to our own opinion. What this thread is more about was the movie, and I still do not agree with the P.C. version of the japanese soldier from WWII. The movie might be a great movie for entertainment, not for history.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

The research was pure garbage. Mostly unit 731 stuff. It was human vivisection, biological and chemical strikes on civilians in China that are still causing death to this day, and a whole host of despicable sh1t.

Not one researcher has validated anything they did. I would list some of the stuff they did, but it makes me p1ssed off to just think about it, and anyone can google Unit 731 themselves. It was beyond torture...I can't think of any reason to do anything like that, besides being something that is not human in any way shape or form.

The people who did it all walked for the most part. They all became captains of industry and acadamia. The guy who brokered that BS deal obviously did not know anything about science, or anything else for that matter.

We should make that b@stard and his charges go to every household of every kid who got experimented on, and have him explain to the family just what vivisection is, and how having that information has helped America.

They wouldn't make it out the front door......

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DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

Roger

There was little in the way of research the Allies were after from Japan, Germany was crawling with special teams from the U.S., Britain and Russia because of the jet and rocket, swept wing and technology. Do a search on 'Operation Paperclip'.
Chris...it was a wind up on all Germans being SS. There were two branches of the SS, the black uniform were Allegmeine(General) SS, who looked after security, and are most closely associated with terror. But perhas the worst were those made up of Ukrainian, Estonian and Latvian nationals, who were often the camp guards.
The Waffen (Armed) SS were the frontline fighting soldiers, perhaps the best the world has seen, which is not to say they weren't involved in some horrific war crimes. You might be surprised to know there were several divisions from other countries ( Denmark, Holland, Norway, France and even a British contingent.......perhaps the first ever NATO!)
Plenty of history for the learning, and best from both sides of the fence.

Dave

Thanks Dave and OP,

While I've got tons of books, just haven't found the time to read them cover to cover.

Orvis, Yup, I'm well aware of those attocities and experiments, hopefully we never see anything like that again.

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

I just googled unit 731. I had never heard of it. Oh my god!

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Not to stoke the fires even more, but for anyone interested in a German/Hitler side of WWII, I would highly recommend the movie Downfall. It's a very interesting movie on Germany's and Hitlers last few weeks of WWII.

Hi Roger!

Sorry, that was a rant, and off of the point. It was directed at the retard who did that deal, not you.

Back to the point. The 731 guys, passed themselves off as researchers to the occupation forces. They were fingered as war criminals from the start. Sooooo, they say that their "Research" produced results, and the allies would need them to help to be able to decipher/use those "results". They took them at their word. And failed to even translate, let alone look at the research for at least two years after the fact. By the time they did, they realized that it was worth nothing, and that it was not really research, just some animals doing horrible stuff to living people. Even the guys sentenced to death, most of them got their sentences commuted. I think the only guys who actually got hung were the military guys. All of the "Doctors" and "Scientists" walked.

I think if all of them, including the "Emperor", were hung, we would see a Japan who's mindset is very different from the one that exists now.

_________________
DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

Or even take it a step further to get into Adolf's head and pickup a copy of "Mein Kampf" at you local Barnes And Nobles.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Interesting thread and frankly, I haven't seen either of the movies mentioned here yet. My own father served in France in the First World War, so we don't have a family experience with the war in the Pacific in WWII but I know and have met many WWII vets with very strong feelings against the Japanese - very strong, in many cases.

As I think many know, I flew the CAF A6M2 Zero for several years and often ran into folks who had a problem with seeing a Japanese plane featured at air shows, etc. What I'd like to share is something I learned while Sony was filming the Zero in 1994 for a documentary for the Japanese market.

They showed up at Midland with eight people, seven men and one woman. We filmed at nearby Big Spring airport and often, while waiting for the correct sky or other conditions, I sat under the wing of the Zero and visited with some of the younger film/sound crew members. They all were somewhat in awe of being able to be close to and actually touch a Zero, as they had heard of it but all that I spoke to noted that their education in Japan included almost nothing in detail about World War II at all. They had question after question about not only the Zero but what I knew about World War II in general, especially from the American side. These were probably thirty-something year old men. I don't know if all that is really true but it does seem so from my other contacts with older Japanese whom I've met and know fairly well, partly due to my contact with and flying the Zero.

I did have a chance to witness several years ago a dear CAF friend and WWII young enlisted plank owner of the USS Bunker Hill sit on our couch with a Japanese naval aviation cadet who just missed seeing combat in WWII. My American friend was not a fan of the Japanese (to say the least) after his WWII experiences. However, after a bit of awkwardness and just being left alone as I grilled some steaks, they started discussing the differences of US and IJN carrier operations, arresting gear, etc. and almost wouldn't stop to come and eat. I'm not trying to make any point, just telling a couple of stories.

Randy

Randy, interesting story. I worked for 4 years in Austria in small hotel, my boss served in the Wehrmacht and had some interesting stories to tell. I might add he is one of the niceset guys I have ever met. I also stayed in a hotel in Bavaria and the owner there was an ex Ju 52 pilot, shot down and lost a leg in North Africa. Soon as he discovered I was from N.Z., he rushed out and came back with a cutting from the NZ Herald. It showed him and an ex NZ medic at a reunion in Auckland. The medic had saved his life, being on hand when he was bought to an Allied aid station straight after the crash....small world!
Couple of other good movies from the German view is 'Das Boot' and 'Stalingrad'

Dave

p.s. Surprised this thread hasn't been moved to 'Off topic'

No, my point wasn't to disagree, just the opposite. I just wanted to make the point that "Made in America" doesn't mean the same thing as it used to. As to the issue of seeing "their" side of things, everyone has their own convictions and that is their right. That's what makes this country the great place that it is. Everyone can have their own ideas and beliefs instead of being forced to to accept someone else's. It's just a shame that so many people choose to judge an entire population based on what their leaders made them believe, or follow.

For instance, I lived in Iran for nearly four years. During that time, I met an entire population of people that were very kind and peaceful....but EXTREMELY religious. During the time of the Shah, the Iranian people embraced Western culture. The women wore western clothing, showing their faces and skin. Once the Ayatollah returned and forced the Shah to leave the country, the population was forced to go back to their strick religious ways.....or face punishment. We fortunately left very shortly before the Embassy was taken over. My point is that 99% of the Iranian people (Muslims) are NOT violent and focused on killing Infidels, but yet because of that 1% sect that is focused on violence, we automatically say that all Muslims are violent. The same works for the Japanese, Germans, Italians, and any other group that has ever started a war of any kind.

That is exactly the point that this movie is trying to make. It is showing the view of a Japanese soldier that not evil, has no hatred of Americans and is just a soldier trying to do his job and survive. So if you choose not to see this movie simply because it is from the "enemy" point if view, that is your right. I probably won't go and see it just because it looks boring