Warbird Information Exchange

This may sound a bit silly to some of you, BUT....
I'm getting the urge (yes, at my age) to learn to fly.
Tell me everything you know about it. (Now there's an opening for an epistle if I ever saw one.)
You know...stuff like:
Cost
How long it takes
Physical problems that would prevent my getting a license (I don't have any that I know of.)

OK, troops...let 'er rip.

Mudge the unusual

_________________
Land of the free because of the brave

Cost: Worth every penny.
Time: You'll wish you had more of it in order to fly more.
Self-asteem: You'll love yourself for not only taking the challenge, but for how good you feel while in the air.

I say go for it Mudge!

Gary

Well, the hard is wanting to do it and easy part is doing it. Go for it and don't look back. Shop around and find a school that you feel good with and look at the instructors and talk with them. If you have a good inside feeling about it, that is your school. Avoid the instructors who whine about putting more C-152/172 in there log book. They are there for you to learn from.

Lynn

- Go to a school that is recommended by others, don't go on adverts and web sites! try not to swap schools during your training, it will cost more.

- I learnt in a Cessna 172 and haven't regretted it. They are a good stable platform and easy to get in and out of. Although 172s don't have good visibility in the circuit due to the high wing.

- Try to fly regularly. Weather, work and your budget will determine when you fly. Aim to do it over a year.

- Cost? $5,000 - $6,000. This will vary depending on how well you do, where you learn and what aeroplane you are flying.

- Don't pay money up front. You will be offered a discount but there are horror stories about schools going out of business and students not getting there money back.

- Take a medical as soon as possible. If you have a condition which will prevent you from getting a PPL it will be best to know upfront.

- Physical problems? color blindness, high blood pressure, heart problems, diabetese, eye stigmatism, epilepsy. The medical will make sure you are healthy enough to fly, if you fail the medical it is better to know you have the illness than to go on thinking you are ok!


If I think of more I'll post it.

Absolute first thing is to knock off your ground school and written exam. Check with the local night schools/adult education classes/jr college ect.

This gives you time to get your schedule arranged so that you can fly at least twice a week. It also gives you some time to visit and tallk with various flight schools and instructors and get a feeling as to how you and the instructor mesh, and talk through a typical lesson.

Look over what equipment the school has. In my opinion, a number of good, well maintained basic aircraft are much more diserable than one or two of the latest equiped machines.....if you can't fly a basic aircraft and navigate by sight and minimal radios, the fancy bells and whistles are going to let you over-run your skills in a hurry.

Lastly, make sure that you add in time and $ to continue flying some every month. You will find that your skills tend to rust up the longer you go between flights. On these flights practice all of your skills and keep advancing towards your next skills level, ie. commercial, instrument, multi and so on.

As to your medical, talk with your AME and have him take the time and do your exam to 2nd class standard, so that any potential problems can be evaluated prior to starting to fly. He doesn't have to issue it to 2nd class standard, but can. You don't want to get started and then find out that you have something that is going to either stop or slow your training down.

I was in the process of getting my medical current after a long hiatus, and discovered a couple of things that are going to slow me regaining mine for a year now.

BTW, if you get hooked up with an instructor that you are not comfortable with, by all means, change instructors immediately.

Due to your age, first thing first, before you do ANYTHING else, get a copy of the airmen's medical standards regulation (I don't know what the number is, but you can look at faa.gov to find it), and look through there for anything you have in any remotely related way. If you have a heart murmur, have had a stroke, bedwetting, or anything else which is listed there, STOP right there.

You must have at least a Third Class medical to fly any aircraft in the US solo, or in the event of light sport class aircraft NOT HAVE ANY DISQUALIFYING MEDICAL HISTORY. If you SUSPECT that you POTENTIALLY MIGHT have anything which disqualifies you, you need to modify your approach and think of getting your sport pilot's license, which DOES NOT require a Third Class medical to fly (Taylorcraft L-2, Aeronca L-3, Piper L-4, Ercoupe 415C). REMEMBER, if you have ANY HISTORY of disqualifying conditions, you MAY NOT get your sport pilot's license if DURING the APPLICATION PROCESS you UNVEIL this medical history to the examiner or official FAA representative.

Assuming you get a third class medical, flight training is going to run you approximately:

$70 to $150 for Third Class Medical

$200 to $400 for ground school

$35 to $70 for written examination

$100 to $150 an hour for an airplane and instructor, 65 hours usual time for getting your license according to AOPA, so total of $6500 to $9750 for aircraft and instructor.

$300 for a Checkride

Total: $7000 to $10000

Telling the rest of the wannabees you got your license: Priceless

Some caveats:

1. Choose your instructor well. I didn't at first and it cost me an additional $3000 or so between my wife and I, and she hasn't finished her license. The magic advice here is to talk to former students of the instructor, and find out how many hours they spent getting their license, and if they passed their checkride first time or not.

2. Save the money first, then go fly. There is no point in starting something and not finishing it. Plan the resources you need and be honest about if you can or can't do it.

3. Consider going to one of the canned courses. I didn't go to one, but set one up for myself, and cost-wise, it was the best thing I did. These may look expensive, but short intensive study has worked well for MANY pilots.

4. Fly at least once a week. Twice is best, even if only for a half hour. Recency and recurrency are the two most important factors, besides good rest and health and study habits, in building skill as a pilot. The guy I finished my license with had a student who went from zero time to private pilot in 14 days....

Good luck, hope this helps. Morgan Freeman (the actor) got his license at the age of 65.

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

Remember that learning to fly is something to enjoy and savour. You will never forget your first solo and passing your flight test, take it at your pace and enjoy it.

Forgotten Field wrote:

"have had a stroke, bedwetting, or anything else"

Bedwetting?!

Dave

Maybe that was at the Army induction physical...

But if you do have a recurrent bedwetting problem, I wonder if that is grounds for disqualification under "other mental defects."

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I agree with the suggestion to get a medial early, just in case there is something that will get in the way.

In terms of how often to get flying, it is good advice to set a pace you will enjoy. I don't know if you're retired, but if so then I'd suggest learning to fly through an intensive course. I did it this way (6 weeks to licence), and not only do I think it'll save you money it’s also (in my eyes) a pretty effective way to get the licence done. Book off around 6 weeks, fly every day the weather will let you and do ground school work when you're not flying. No reason why you can't do them concurrently.

Just a thought. As I said, I know this isn't practical for everyone but for those who can it works very well.

I just finished my Multi-Commercial-Instrument at Sheble Aviation in Kingman Arizona. I would highly recommend them as a place to get a PPL or any other license. They don't cost an arm and a leg and they make sure you get the training you need. It is intensive training but thorough and you are well prepared for your checkride. Next summer I am going back to get a glider and seaplane rating. PM if you want any further details.

Jim Harley

Greetings mudge...

So you have the urge to do this? Well I know it well. I did my private
4 years ago and have been cranking away since.. I did my instrument
last year and a tailwheel certificate as well.. in fact I just passed along a
whole stack of stuff to scott d. here in waukesha..

So.. I would agree, go check out where people are flying from and ask
around about the schools.. find out how successful they've been and what
program they have (groundschool class?).. flying? types of planes?

Here's a few of my recommendations that will go along with some of the
previous postings...

1. Get the medical.. if for some reason you can't pass, its identified -
and if so don't dispair, they've also got the sport pilot gig now which can still be enjoyable as well for local fun in the air, key thing is whether there
are any issues to be considered that could disqualify you and better
to know it up front. Since we are over 40 you need to pass this
every 2 years.

2. If they have a ground school, take it.. where I learned they taught
a class one day a week, for a couple hours and about 10 weeks long,
then you would take your written.. its easier than studying by yourself
and you can ask lots of other folks about flying, get a sense of the
instructors and the place, etc.

3. For a private, I would expect to spend around $7500, maybe more..
Fuel has went up, insurance has went up as well.. so these days around
here a Cessna 152 is $60-$65/hr, including gas (what they call "wet").
Since you're a larger sized guy, you may feel more comfortable in a
piper warrior or C172.. and those are more expensive, often $80-$85
depending on equipment, age, etc. and you haven't included the
instructor yet.. which is another $37-$40/hr of flying time.. so figure
a range of $110-~$125 per hour of flight time.. it adds up..

Fly the plane you are comfortable with.. a Cessna or piper is fine and
don't be afraid to switch or go back and forth.. night cross country's
in a under equipped piper cub can be a little harrowing in your neck
of the woods. 2 radios and 2 vor's can be helpful in this case.

Typical students these days (from what I hear) are getting their private
in ~70 hrs.. between dual and solo time to fit everything in. It can be
less but I haven't heard anyone getting their ticket in < 60 hrs in a long
long time.. Also throw in some $$ for "ground" time as well, often at
about $20 / hr for instructor to learn how things like charts, airspace,
etc. I think I had 5-6 hrs plus the written class ($250). The canned
courses can be OK, I didn't go that route but some people like them,
often for review, and it helps to have good study skills regardless.

You will want to fly 2 or even 3 times / week if you can. It really helps
keep the flow of knowledge and not have to keep re-learning skills.
(9/11 killed me and had grounded me for over a month just as I was
ready to solo.. probably added 5 hours to my private..) Still, figure
this will take anywhere from 8 months to a year for the private.
And believe me, in WV, you get weather, so learn to fly in it. its a
whole lot different than going to fly in the desert - it pays to know
what to do and have flown in it when it comes at you.

Once you solo, you'll also need renters insurance.. if you join AOPA
or EAA you can buy their policy, or I can also recommend AVEMCO as
an independent that I had used in the past. Thats so if you're soloing,
and something happens, you've covered the airplane, or passengers
once y ou get your ticket. Figure $350-$450 / yr. Its pretty much a
similar flat fee between AOPA, EAA and Avemco.. Renters are pretty
much stuck at this level. As I found out, Instrument ratings only help
out once you own your plane, and tailwheel makes you a better pilot
as well, but neither help your insurance until you own the plane.

Try to make sure your instructor is going to be around, but don't fret
if he takes off for the airlines, it happens and you just have to continue
with someone else. Not a big deal, but it can cost you a couple hours
for them to get aquainted with you. Just don't delay if it happens, keep
going. And this is where it comes back to going with a quality outfit.

Remember, you're doing this for you.. and you will savor it for the rest
of your life should you decide to do it.. for me it felt better than graduating from college since it was something I did for ME! not just
something expected by a whole lot of other folks...

So.. theres a long list of thoughts... probably more to in the background
as well so I'll shut up for now... Hope you do it..
take care,

henning

_________________
"The best way to control the future is to create it".

No sweat Mudge, anybody smart enough to use indoor plumbing can fly. Mentally it is about as hard as a 7th grade course, physically as rideing a simple motorcycle. Main thing is motivation, money $4500 to 6000 for a private, less for a sport license, much less for Light Sport or ultralight. Also consider a glider rating if $ is a problem. Some schools offer a guaranteed price and discount up front, others may drag you out for months. Ground school can be on your own, both King and Sporty's have computer interactive courses, as well as DVD, but faster and easier than just books. Or local college or group classes if you are not in a hurry or like group support. Save money by flying at a cheaper field, no control tower, cheaper planes. If you can, I think it is a lot more fun to learn in a Cub or something sporty than a 172, but the plane is not the main thing. Max progress is flying as often as you can, 3 times a week, and make sure to study before you fly and get a postflight briefing. If you ask around you might find an instructor who cares if you learn, and may have had some Warbird or Acro experience. It's probably not the guy with the tie and clean fingernails. Go out to your local field and nose around. Write us more as you go on.

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Another thought about flight schools. Sometimes (not always) the types of students the flight school retains and keeps around the place will tell you about the overall attitudes at the school. Students who don't care, have loads of free time, and are sloppy, can do a lot of things to a perfectly good airplane. It's a long story... and the school no longer exists.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

It is hard to believe that it is taking students 65 or 70 hours to get a license! I wonder if people are spending a lot of time sittting with the engine running waiting for traffic or taxiing, flying large patterns at big airports, or just that they did not do the prep study before getting in the plane. As an experiment a couple of top CFIs found a student, a Vegas showgirl, who knew Nothing of gen av. They wanted to see how fast they could teach her to solo a C-150, just to go solo around the pattern, not all the stuff a normal student would learn. It took just over 5 hours.

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK