Warbird Information Exchange

I always place 12 O'Clock High at the top. It is a collage of true stories as written by Bernie Lay (who was shot down in a pathfinder B-17 on 6 March, 1944 over Berlin)...several different groups and characters including Bucky Cleven, General Frank Armstrong, Red Cliburne were portrayed...

Strategic Air Command was excellent. Even the portrayal (in disguise) of Curt LeMay was pretty good. I admire him and Jimmy Stewart so much.

I always wondered if the rescue behind enemy lines scene in Fighter Squadron was patterned after my father's rescue by Deacon Priest near Soissons in August '44.

The Hunters was for me the best Korean War movie (Fighter aviation) with Mitchum and Robert Wagner... too bad only F-84F's were closest to a MiG 15.

Bridges at Toko-Ri a classic.

Command Decision with Clark Gable and Walter Pigeon was another excellent view of 8th AF High Wycomb struggles when escorts weren't available all the way to the target - and the forthcoming Jet menace was just over the horizon.

Blue Max was my favorite WWI movie.. I couldn't have resisted Ursula either... and the air to air scenes were fairly good.

With animation getting as good as it is getting now the sky is the limit to capture realism in the sky for any era. Think of the state of the possible now for Battle of Britain, Ploesti/Avalanche mission (Which was done very well in Airpower series narrated by Cronkite), Marianas Turkey Shoot, Black Thursday on 14 October 1943, etc, etc..

Regards,
Bill Marshall

That’s an interesting perspective. For me the beauty of BoB is that it was done before computer animation was available. So all the flying scenes (other than the obvious stuka model crashes) are real airplanes flown by real pilots undoubtedly having a real good time in the process.

Sure, animation could perhaps provide a bit more of a visual feast in terms of effects or scenes that you wouldn't want to do with old airplanes, but as we've seen with the recent attempt in Flyboys it doesn't always add to the realism.

You mention The Blue Max, and I agree that it’s a good flying film largely for the same reasons I like BoB. The flying is real, and the aerial sequences reflect that. In contrast (to keep with the WWI theme), Flyboys may have had more high energy combat scenes. However having flown a Fokker Triplane I know that silliness like extended vertical climbs chasing another aircraft are complete hogwash. So even though that film made use of a number of real aircraft, over the top animation only detracts from the realism factor. I'd much rather see more films made that are along the lines of BoB, Tora Tora Tora and The Blue Max where I can empathize with the pilot flying a real airplane in the scenes I'm watching.

Maybe that’s just me though.

A great movie that is rarely seen. I've only seen it a couple of times in my life. It has never been released publically, though you can order it from a company that supplies movies for TV stations and media. Where else can you see footage of the XB-51? See site for details:
http://www.bellx-2.com/ttu/index.html

BK

Edward - I'm trapped by details which don't fit.. Spanish 109G's with a Rolls Royce engine in BoB and model airplanes blowing up are like fingernails on a chalkboard - best substitute available, but a distraction nevertheless.. F-84's as Mig 15's in Hunter..

For me an extremely well done (and well advised by someone who has a clue) with scenes from a force of cornstalk high B-24's dueling with flak cars on railroads while coming up to the Americana Refinery , then popping up to avaoid explosions from a previous force... or Me 210s circling a crippled Fort or Fw 190s on a company front attack on the way in to Schweinfurt..or 51B's en masse wheeling above Munich or Brunswick, dueling with Fw 190s and Me 109s.

When we can do Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan (forget Spielburg describing 51D's as 'Tank Busters - the rest was too dam%%d real) plus the stuff we are seeing now about the Cactus Air Force or Ralph Parr in Korea are just very good and getting better..

For me 12 O'clock high was not only a great story but we had so much combat film available with the right ships for the scenes that the special effects didn't get in the way of the story.

I know I may be way out from my perspective but there you are - lol.

Check out Dark Blue World, it essentially BoB footage cleaned up and digital effects added. It's quite good.

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Scott,

Saw it, loved it. I hadn't thought of computer effects being used for subtle things like empty casings or a stream of digital rounds. They did it so well with the recycled BoB footage that I didn't even think a great deal about it being edited that way.

I suppose my point was that at heart its still real airplanes, being flown by real people and acting like real planes do. If it can be cleaned up, that I can deal with. My complaint is more with fully animated aircraft that just don't come through as faithful. Not to mention at least when they use the real thing hopefully some like minded warbird type is doing the flying and having a blast in the process.

Anyways, great point on DBW and the middle ground of computer edited real airplane footage.

Cheers

Edward

One really old one: Helldivers, from 1932. It was the "Top Gun" of its day. It starred a very young Clark Gable. The footage of the old Navy Biplanes and the Saratoga is great. While some of the flight scenes are obviously models, other scenes, including the deck scenes are quite remarkable given the time period when the movie was shot.

Other than that, I'll put my votes in for 12 O'Clock High and the Battle of Britain. Tora, Tora, Tora was very good. Midway was a virtual rehash of "Tora Tora Tora", using a lot of the footage, and some of the dogfight footage was taken from Battle of Britain. I could never get past that all the carriers in the movie had angled flight decks.

I could see a "Saving Private Ryan" treatment of aircraft...maybe a story called "Four Came Home" about Torpedo 6 at the Battle of Midway, or the story about the four Marauders at Midway (Two Came Home?), or the Avengers of Torpedo 8 Detached (One Came Home?). The heroism of all the torpedo pilots is unparalleled, it was US carrier aviation's "Charge of The Light Brigade". However, their sacrifice wasn't in vain as they were able to suck the fighter down to sea level, clearing the way for the SBDs from Enterprise and Yorktown to smash Akagi, Kaga and Soryu in an incredible six minutes.

If they did a story on Torpedo 6 (or 3 or 8 ), they'd have to build TBD replicas, too.

the war lover w/ steve mcqueen
tora tora tora
murphy's war with peter o'toole
the original flight of the phoenix with james stewart made in the 60's
dr strangelove
the right stuff
633 squadron w/ cliff robertson

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Bombers B-52 with Carl Malden
The Purple Plain with Gregory Peck(Nice Mossie stuff)
Air Cadet with Richard Long( F-80 Acrojets)
The High and the Mighty(Okay it's not exactly warbirds, but I love the take off scene of the DC-4)
Bombadier(Has B-18s in it)
A Gathering of Eagles(Okay 12 O'clock High with B-52s)
Battle Hymn(F-51)
And Still #1
Strategic Air Command(Have worn out one copy..................And, also written by Bernie Lay, as I recall)

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I never said the jokes were Good, they're just Free! You gets whatchyas pays for!

Dr. Strangelove?

B-52 models with process film of Greenland showing the shadow of the B-17 photo ship?

Not to mention a strongly anti-USAF message that some idiots
(check out the general discussion part of the FlyPast forum to see how gullible some foreigners are when it comes to believing anything anti-American) believe was a documentary.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

Not that it has a happy ending , but Frozen in Time-the B-29 Kee Bird Nova episode-is now out on DVD.

heck yes dr strangelove!! it's a cult classic!! the military thinking of the time as to the idiocy of the military doctrine of that time in the flick should appeal to the humor of every warbirder!! granted, i know what your talking about, but the dark humor while macabre, is classic.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

especially where actor slim pickens portrays a good ole boy cowboy checking the survival kits check list for prophylactics, chewing gum, .45 pistol etc, then he can't release his bomb, goes into the bay, straddles it to jar it loose & falls with it while riding it like a rodeo bronco!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Strangelove was made as a "black comedy". Yes, to pick up on Tom's comment on the survival kit checklist, I am always in hysterics when Slim pays homage to that scene in the movie 1941. He provides a verbalized checklist of the items the Japanese sailors are removing from him during a search. One box of Cracker Pops, one genuine pocket knife...

What about newer movies,like Bat 21 or Air America?
And I will still say that the scene from Catch 22 with all the 25's taking-off is "Priceless"