A Hope and Plea to All WIX Members
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:41 pm
I am often asked by people who call the CF office here in reference to the B-17 & B-24 "How long do you expect these aircraft will continue flying?" My answer starts pretty simply... "Depends on politics and insurance."
Insurance is pretty self-explanatory and is a different topic all together... but politics usually raises a few follow up questions. We all know the politics of the FAA and how that will impact the warbird community, but few realize the acidity of personal politics in erasing elements of the community. I have been through a few nasty break-ups and disputes and can honestly say that it is easily one of the biggest threats to us today.
And I fear that is what we are seeing here... virtually.
It is pretty safe to say that we in the warbird enthusiast category are a pretty passionate lot. We live, breathe, and eat these aircraft and in many cases are willing to risk a lot with what others would call a "hobby". We spend thousands of dollars on parts, aircraft, collectibles, and cameras and our emotional investment increases exponentially with each dollar spent. Many of us make considerable investments of time in research, restoration, flying, and exploration and a similar emotional investment is made. We are all driven by passion and with it comes pride.
We are proud of our opinions and we are proud of our deeds and usually we have a slightly skewed view of how others see these when we view the world around with our glasses colored by pride. We fight hard for this pride over what we do, did, or will do and sometimes it gets pretty difficult for others to see your way. It's not that you are wrong, or that they are wrong, its just a differing opinion... period.
Yes, there are people in every organization that have particular malicious intent and they are indeed poisonous, but with every one of those, there are many, many more that are just simply misunderstood for what their opinions are. On this board, the "trolls" that pose as guests and just hurl insults and bad wishes are the malicious offenders... and they would do this whether it was a warbird board or a pottery board. With the growing popularity of the forum it happens... and there is no way to change that. You just ignore the troll and pass over the bridge and go along your way... as mixing with him would be not only be a futile fight, but also may cost you some credibility or worse as Mr. Coggan explained.
Luckily WIX seems to not have too much of a problem in the troll manner, but it seems the misunderstanding of our opinions is becoming a problem as of late. Our passions are running high and our willingness to fight sometimes boils over the line of reason and accountability that we all must strive to preserve. For those of us that are not as thick skinned, we get hurt and retreat; for those of us that are thick and hard-headed, we run around as if we were blinded bulls in a Waterford crystal shop; and for those of us with a little thick skin but cooler heads... we sit as the explosions take place, try to mediate, hope that the fighting ends, and try to pick up the pieces afterward. The aftermath usuall ends the same... the environment is weaker for everyone and those that ran like the bulls never truly win...
I recount my experiences with physical organizations that fell apart because of this. The Gulf Coast CAF, New England Escadrille, and the National Warplane Museum are the recent case studies, but I am sure a lot of you out there know of more. I beg you to look at what the results were... never anything good, and a heck of a lot of bad. Even a result like NWM that looked good initially eventually turned bad as the situation deteriorated when the one of the best assets... the human one... dried up.
It is the human asset here that is our most treasured one… in fact, it is the only common thread that keeps WIX together. We have no airplanes, displays, or facilities here like a common museum… it is just “us” and it is “us” that is so important to the survival of the board.
I hear the story of how WIX came to be and I say a hearty "bravo!" to Scott for his effort and enthusiasm to the cause. Taking the lead after bad circumstances led to the demise of one board and then another, Scott invested his own limited time and money and built WIX and its many facets for the betterment of the community as a whole. It was hard for me to understand how a person could do this without some sort of underlying motive… that is, until I met Scott in person, saw the kind of genuine person he is, and realized that he wasn’t hiding anything. This wasn’t an instrument of ego or a soapbox for the totalitarian broadcast of his own opinions. He didn’t favor certain few that followed him and forget others that supported him… everyone’s thoughts and ideas were accepted and not censored based on their politics. Yes, Scott has stepped in when the conversation got too malicious, but he was looking for the best interests of everyone… again, like Mr. Coggan said, this can have serious consequences if not patrolled accordingly. Long story short, Scott wasn't doing it for the American warbirds, the Aussie warbirds, or the European warbirds as separate groups... he was doing it for our community, our "nation", our "Warbird nation". This forum stands as proof today of why the concept worked... all opinions and thoughts, no matter what, are accepted and heard here. Some may be good, and some may be bad... but we all have a say, and for the most part the concept of self rule has kept the forum on a straight course with very few sharp curves and it has contributed significantly to the information passage and communication that does nothing but good for the warbird community.
Many of us within the forum are getting “hot” over some issues that are being brought up… many not about warbirds, but instead about politics. Some have been scared away, some have packed up and “gone home”, while still others blast away in the protection of their personal pride. I would like to offer the community here some attempt at mediation and an appeal to stop the fight, clear the air, and just get back to having fun and enjoy our company, thoughts, and ideas… get back to it before it is too late.
I make a plea to everyone here to stop reacting so quickly to supposed “insults” and just think for a moment before posting something that will do no-one any good. Many of us forget that this is text and the crutch of body language and voice inflection that we speak with is gone… so what seemed like a witty retort if you spoke it may come off as a nasty, offhanded comment when typed. When a differing opinion is heard, instead of rolling your opinions over theirs like a steamroller, instead ask why they feel that way and see the reasons… then there may be a clearer understanding and allow all of us to see their side and develop a fair opinion.
I also would like to make a plea for those who retreated to rejoin us here. Yes, we all may have a bad taste in our mouths from the problems, but our communication here is like gold… and it enriches our community immensely as we contribute. Look at all the wonderful insights that have come through this board about recovery, research, and restoration as well as recreation (airshows) and regulation (government policy regarding warbirds) and look at how many of us have used it to good advantage. Come back and share again… ignore the trolls, maintain a positive course, and be forgiving to your fellow WIXers. In the end we will all be better for it, and I guarantee, you will too.
I am writing this because I too have a passion when it comes to warbirds, and this passion is influencing my protection of what is good in warbirds… and that is the people. This forum has allowed me (and many others) to communicate and become great friends with enthusiasts on an international scale. I don’t want us to fall apart because this forum has grown so much… I’d rather see it gather more and more people that feel the same way we all do about warbirds… people who love warbirds!
Thank you for reading and long live the Warbird Information Exchange!
Ryan Keough
Insurance is pretty self-explanatory and is a different topic all together... but politics usually raises a few follow up questions. We all know the politics of the FAA and how that will impact the warbird community, but few realize the acidity of personal politics in erasing elements of the community. I have been through a few nasty break-ups and disputes and can honestly say that it is easily one of the biggest threats to us today.
And I fear that is what we are seeing here... virtually.
It is pretty safe to say that we in the warbird enthusiast category are a pretty passionate lot. We live, breathe, and eat these aircraft and in many cases are willing to risk a lot with what others would call a "hobby". We spend thousands of dollars on parts, aircraft, collectibles, and cameras and our emotional investment increases exponentially with each dollar spent. Many of us make considerable investments of time in research, restoration, flying, and exploration and a similar emotional investment is made. We are all driven by passion and with it comes pride.
We are proud of our opinions and we are proud of our deeds and usually we have a slightly skewed view of how others see these when we view the world around with our glasses colored by pride. We fight hard for this pride over what we do, did, or will do and sometimes it gets pretty difficult for others to see your way. It's not that you are wrong, or that they are wrong, its just a differing opinion... period.
Yes, there are people in every organization that have particular malicious intent and they are indeed poisonous, but with every one of those, there are many, many more that are just simply misunderstood for what their opinions are. On this board, the "trolls" that pose as guests and just hurl insults and bad wishes are the malicious offenders... and they would do this whether it was a warbird board or a pottery board. With the growing popularity of the forum it happens... and there is no way to change that. You just ignore the troll and pass over the bridge and go along your way... as mixing with him would be not only be a futile fight, but also may cost you some credibility or worse as Mr. Coggan explained.
Luckily WIX seems to not have too much of a problem in the troll manner, but it seems the misunderstanding of our opinions is becoming a problem as of late. Our passions are running high and our willingness to fight sometimes boils over the line of reason and accountability that we all must strive to preserve. For those of us that are not as thick skinned, we get hurt and retreat; for those of us that are thick and hard-headed, we run around as if we were blinded bulls in a Waterford crystal shop; and for those of us with a little thick skin but cooler heads... we sit as the explosions take place, try to mediate, hope that the fighting ends, and try to pick up the pieces afterward. The aftermath usuall ends the same... the environment is weaker for everyone and those that ran like the bulls never truly win...
I recount my experiences with physical organizations that fell apart because of this. The Gulf Coast CAF, New England Escadrille, and the National Warplane Museum are the recent case studies, but I am sure a lot of you out there know of more. I beg you to look at what the results were... never anything good, and a heck of a lot of bad. Even a result like NWM that looked good initially eventually turned bad as the situation deteriorated when the one of the best assets... the human one... dried up.
It is the human asset here that is our most treasured one… in fact, it is the only common thread that keeps WIX together. We have no airplanes, displays, or facilities here like a common museum… it is just “us” and it is “us” that is so important to the survival of the board.
I hear the story of how WIX came to be and I say a hearty "bravo!" to Scott for his effort and enthusiasm to the cause. Taking the lead after bad circumstances led to the demise of one board and then another, Scott invested his own limited time and money and built WIX and its many facets for the betterment of the community as a whole. It was hard for me to understand how a person could do this without some sort of underlying motive… that is, until I met Scott in person, saw the kind of genuine person he is, and realized that he wasn’t hiding anything. This wasn’t an instrument of ego or a soapbox for the totalitarian broadcast of his own opinions. He didn’t favor certain few that followed him and forget others that supported him… everyone’s thoughts and ideas were accepted and not censored based on their politics. Yes, Scott has stepped in when the conversation got too malicious, but he was looking for the best interests of everyone… again, like Mr. Coggan said, this can have serious consequences if not patrolled accordingly. Long story short, Scott wasn't doing it for the American warbirds, the Aussie warbirds, or the European warbirds as separate groups... he was doing it for our community, our "nation", our "Warbird nation". This forum stands as proof today of why the concept worked... all opinions and thoughts, no matter what, are accepted and heard here. Some may be good, and some may be bad... but we all have a say, and for the most part the concept of self rule has kept the forum on a straight course with very few sharp curves and it has contributed significantly to the information passage and communication that does nothing but good for the warbird community.
Many of us within the forum are getting “hot” over some issues that are being brought up… many not about warbirds, but instead about politics. Some have been scared away, some have packed up and “gone home”, while still others blast away in the protection of their personal pride. I would like to offer the community here some attempt at mediation and an appeal to stop the fight, clear the air, and just get back to having fun and enjoy our company, thoughts, and ideas… get back to it before it is too late.
I make a plea to everyone here to stop reacting so quickly to supposed “insults” and just think for a moment before posting something that will do no-one any good. Many of us forget that this is text and the crutch of body language and voice inflection that we speak with is gone… so what seemed like a witty retort if you spoke it may come off as a nasty, offhanded comment when typed. When a differing opinion is heard, instead of rolling your opinions over theirs like a steamroller, instead ask why they feel that way and see the reasons… then there may be a clearer understanding and allow all of us to see their side and develop a fair opinion.
I also would like to make a plea for those who retreated to rejoin us here. Yes, we all may have a bad taste in our mouths from the problems, but our communication here is like gold… and it enriches our community immensely as we contribute. Look at all the wonderful insights that have come through this board about recovery, research, and restoration as well as recreation (airshows) and regulation (government policy regarding warbirds) and look at how many of us have used it to good advantage. Come back and share again… ignore the trolls, maintain a positive course, and be forgiving to your fellow WIXers. In the end we will all be better for it, and I guarantee, you will too.
I am writing this because I too have a passion when it comes to warbirds, and this passion is influencing my protection of what is good in warbirds… and that is the people. This forum has allowed me (and many others) to communicate and become great friends with enthusiasts on an international scale. I don’t want us to fall apart because this forum has grown so much… I’d rather see it gather more and more people that feel the same way we all do about warbirds… people who love warbirds!
Thank you for reading and long live the Warbird Information Exchange!
Ryan Keough
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:11 pm
Bravo, better said than I ever could. I too have seen the self destruction (from the outside) of various groups due to petty politics to the detriment of the movement as a whole.
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:36 pm
A very articulate and wise message, Ryan! I agree wholeheartedly.
Dennis
Dennis
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:05 pm
Ryan to Ryan...
Good post. Couldn't agree more.
Ryan
Good post. Couldn't agree more.
Ryan
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:43 pm
Well put Ryan!
Eric
Eric
Ryan
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:45 am
Ryan:
What a thoughtful and well written opinion!
You are the s**t!!! : )
I hope one day, to be able to shake your hand.
Saludos,
Tulio
What a thoughtful and well written opinion!
You are the s**t!!! : )
I hope one day, to be able to shake your hand.
Saludos,
Tulio
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:23 am
Very well put Ryan. Next time we get together I would like to buy your a beer. 
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:37 am
Excellent Post Ryan.
I'll echo Scott, if/when we meet, I'm buying the first round....
I'll echo Scott, if/when we meet, I'm buying the first round....
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:37 pm
I'll buy a round. I feel the hang over building already! 
Mike
Mike
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:59 pm
Good one Ryan.
You've put it very well, with lots to think about. I'd just like to add that to get respect, you've got to give it. In other words those I respect are those who are generous enough to respect those also deserving. It's a virtuous network. Giving and recieving respect alows a little lattitude for the ocasonal mistake, which we all make. Or as Granny Witherwax put it: "Without respct you 'aint got nuthing."
I'd also like to say a quick 'thank you' to the many who make the warbird game such an endlessly interesting one to be involved in; the occasional flak is a minor inconvinence when I think of the friends I've made worldwide. No names, because it's a long list!
(And I'm sure you should get more than one drink out of such a long, thirstly post, old boy!)
Cheers
James K
You've put it very well, with lots to think about. I'd just like to add that to get respect, you've got to give it. In other words those I respect are those who are generous enough to respect those also deserving. It's a virtuous network. Giving and recieving respect alows a little lattitude for the ocasonal mistake, which we all make. Or as Granny Witherwax put it: "Without respct you 'aint got nuthing."
I'd also like to say a quick 'thank you' to the many who make the warbird game such an endlessly interesting one to be involved in; the occasional flak is a minor inconvinence when I think of the friends I've made worldwide. No names, because it's a long list!
(And I'm sure you should get more than one drink out of such a long, thirstly post, old boy!)
Cheers
James K
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:39 pm
Gosh Ryan, I wish wot I had writ woz az gud!
Seriously, I don't want to sound patronising when I say a thought provoking piece and extremely well written. BTW please call me Paul as Mr. Coggan sounds extremely formal old chap!
Now, FLY WARBIRDS!
Paul
Seriously, I don't want to sound patronising when I say a thought provoking piece and extremely well written. BTW please call me Paul as Mr. Coggan sounds extremely formal old chap!
Now, FLY WARBIRDS!
Paul
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:47 pm
Ryan,
I'm with you !
Let's Keep 'em Flying !
Paul
I'm with you !
Let's Keep 'em Flying !
Paul