Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:38 pm
This a thread that has obviously sparked my interest, as I am sure it has sparked DaveM’s from Classic Wings as well. I am going to step out on the limb here and give some comments from the other side of the fence. Please forgive my indulgence.
I am no expert on the magazine publishing business, I started Warbird Digest literally on a whim, but I believe my thoughts on the internet’s affect on the publishing business are proven true by some of the comments on this board. When I started WD, I was convinced that the news end of business was not going to be where we should put our focus. Instead we chose to do in depth features that you wouldn’t necessarily take the time to read on a computer. Stories you may want to revisit over and over again over time and have portability to take to the ‘library’ etc. That being said, we still try to cover news on a limited basis, because a lot of our readers don’t frequent the internet. The WIX guys (and gals) are only a small (albeit growing) portion of the interested warbird folks. So we have a difficult task to balance the needs of our readers. We are always open to feedback, and I love hearing both the good and the bad (well I don’t exactly love hearing the bad, but it is still valuable
).
To give my friends at Classic Wings a few kudos, I have to say, they do a masterful job of collecting news from around the globe. They have even managed to scoop the internet a time or two. That is particularly tough.
The other tough part about news is that is important for me to be very careful about when we publish it. We are entrusted with information well before it becomes public knowledge, and will never publish it until we are given the okay. Not all publications have the same principal. A couple of recent examples are the CAF F-82 deal in which the details were published in another unnamed warbird magazine, even though I was told the CAF specifically requested it not be published. The recent sale of Glacier Girl and Rare Bear were well known here at WD long before they even broke on the internet, but we have an obligation to preserve the confidentiality of these transactions until the principals are ready. This is our obligation to help the warbird movement grow. I don’t like all the secrecy that surrounds so many collections and projects these days, but that is the way it is, and we have a duty to respect that.
I will step out a bit here and attempt to speak for the folks at Classic Wings as well. Subscribers are the lifeblood of a specialty magazine. While newsstand sales are great, the profit margin is slim to none, nevertheless it is important to be there not only for marketing purposes, but also because it promotes the warbird movement as a whole. Who knows when some casual newsstand browser will pick up a copy of WD or CW and have their interest sparked? Maybe they have the means to start a warbird project or become a collector. I wrote an editorial when we started the magazine about how a small start up publication called Aero News sparked my interest in the warbird movement in a deep way. Twenty years later, that magazine is long gone, a fate many specialty magazines suffer, but the impact that it had on the warbird movement is still being felt. Graham and Dave at Classic Wings, nor myself, are going to get rich publishing a warbird magazine. It is a labor of love, and while I can’t speak for the CW guys, in my case it done out of the pure passion for the growth of the movement. It is pretty likely that if I put as much time and effort into running my "other" business, the one that actually pays the bills, as I do the magazine, I would probably be flying a fighter instead of a T-6.
I have a particular concern that we involve younger folks, which is why many of our articles center on the nuts and bolts of a project. I guess you could say we are trying to capture the “American Chopper” audience.
I am also going to give credit where credit is due. I believe that the consistent publication of Air Classics for the last forty or so years helped drive the movement. Yes, I know they are my competitor, but they have had a profound impact. The simple truth is that all of the specialty warbird magazines need the diehards to subscriber if we are going to hang in there and be a voice for the growth of the movement. This may sound like a shameless plug for subscriptions and maybe it is, but it is also the truth of the business.
Mike is right when he mentions that we are ‘parochially” American. I confess we are, just as CW covers the NZ and AUS movement heavily and Flypast and Aeroplane are heavy on Europe. We also cover Mustangs a lot. Not necessarily by choice, but on this side of the pond, it is where the majority of the warbird activity is. We would be remiss to not give credit where credit is due to those folks who are putting their hard earned money into Mustangs. ( That being said, I wish there were more Thunderbolts myself )
While I would love to have you all subscribe to Warbird Digest, I also encourage you to support Classic Wings. I think the magazines are purposely different enough that they are both worth reading. I am a big fan of their work I look forward to my CW every two months, just like you guys do. After all, I am an enthusiast first, and a magazine guy second.
Thanks for hearing me out on this. I have enjoyed all your posts, and enjoy WIX each day. I have met a lot of great folks because of WIX and the magazine, several have become close friends. Thanks to all of you who have supported WD. It has been a lot of fun, and Lord willing we will be able to continue it for many more years.
I am no expert on the magazine publishing business, I started Warbird Digest literally on a whim, but I believe my thoughts on the internet’s affect on the publishing business are proven true by some of the comments on this board. When I started WD, I was convinced that the news end of business was not going to be where we should put our focus. Instead we chose to do in depth features that you wouldn’t necessarily take the time to read on a computer. Stories you may want to revisit over and over again over time and have portability to take to the ‘library’ etc. That being said, we still try to cover news on a limited basis, because a lot of our readers don’t frequent the internet. The WIX guys (and gals) are only a small (albeit growing) portion of the interested warbird folks. So we have a difficult task to balance the needs of our readers. We are always open to feedback, and I love hearing both the good and the bad (well I don’t exactly love hearing the bad, but it is still valuable
).
To give my friends at Classic Wings a few kudos, I have to say, they do a masterful job of collecting news from around the globe. They have even managed to scoop the internet a time or two. That is particularly tough.
The other tough part about news is that is important for me to be very careful about when we publish it. We are entrusted with information well before it becomes public knowledge, and will never publish it until we are given the okay. Not all publications have the same principal. A couple of recent examples are the CAF F-82 deal in which the details were published in another unnamed warbird magazine, even though I was told the CAF specifically requested it not be published. The recent sale of Glacier Girl and Rare Bear were well known here at WD long before they even broke on the internet, but we have an obligation to preserve the confidentiality of these transactions until the principals are ready. This is our obligation to help the warbird movement grow. I don’t like all the secrecy that surrounds so many collections and projects these days, but that is the way it is, and we have a duty to respect that.
I will step out a bit here and attempt to speak for the folks at Classic Wings as well. Subscribers are the lifeblood of a specialty magazine. While newsstand sales are great, the profit margin is slim to none, nevertheless it is important to be there not only for marketing purposes, but also because it promotes the warbird movement as a whole. Who knows when some casual newsstand browser will pick up a copy of WD or CW and have their interest sparked? Maybe they have the means to start a warbird project or become a collector. I wrote an editorial when we started the magazine about how a small start up publication called Aero News sparked my interest in the warbird movement in a deep way. Twenty years later, that magazine is long gone, a fate many specialty magazines suffer, but the impact that it had on the warbird movement is still being felt. Graham and Dave at Classic Wings, nor myself, are going to get rich publishing a warbird magazine. It is a labor of love, and while I can’t speak for the CW guys, in my case it done out of the pure passion for the growth of the movement. It is pretty likely that if I put as much time and effort into running my "other" business, the one that actually pays the bills, as I do the magazine, I would probably be flying a fighter instead of a T-6.
I have a particular concern that we involve younger folks, which is why many of our articles center on the nuts and bolts of a project. I guess you could say we are trying to capture the “American Chopper” audience.
I am also going to give credit where credit is due. I believe that the consistent publication of Air Classics for the last forty or so years helped drive the movement. Yes, I know they are my competitor, but they have had a profound impact. The simple truth is that all of the specialty warbird magazines need the diehards to subscriber if we are going to hang in there and be a voice for the growth of the movement. This may sound like a shameless plug for subscriptions and maybe it is, but it is also the truth of the business.
Mike is right when he mentions that we are ‘parochially” American. I confess we are, just as CW covers the NZ and AUS movement heavily and Flypast and Aeroplane are heavy on Europe. We also cover Mustangs a lot. Not necessarily by choice, but on this side of the pond, it is where the majority of the warbird activity is. We would be remiss to not give credit where credit is due to those folks who are putting their hard earned money into Mustangs. ( That being said, I wish there were more Thunderbolts myself
)
While I would love to have you all subscribe to Warbird Digest, I also encourage you to support Classic Wings. I think the magazines are purposely different enough that they are both worth reading. I am a big fan of their work I look forward to my CW every two months, just like you guys do. After all, I am an enthusiast first, and a magazine guy second.
Thanks for hearing me out on this. I have enjoyed all your posts, and enjoy WIX each day. I have met a lot of great folks because of WIX and the magazine, several have become close friends. Thanks to all of you who have supported WD. It has been a lot of fun, and Lord willing we will be able to continue it for many more years.
Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:34 am
PhantomAce08 wrote:Just as a side thought, it is good to check Ebay for subscriptions--they are much cheaper! For example, I bought my fiance a year of Road and Track for $2.50!
I tried that route once, nothing ever showed up
Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:16 am
All
As Tim has already suggested, I have been following the thread with interest, and this same question does get asked about once a year - so it is good to get an update of the current mood of the good folks who frequent WIX.
I certainly concur with all of Tim's thoughts and found myself nodding my head reading his post. I must reiterate that the only way magazines can survive is through subscriptions ( which means the any profit returns directly to the magazine), so I would also encourage you 'sign up' to those that you enjoy, rather than buying them from a retailer.
Tim also makes very good points about respecting owners wishes, both CW and WD are often aware of events long before they are made public..........and it is very frustrating not being able to comment on the board when speculation flies about, Tim gave a few examples, and another that I can think of is the current situation regarding Swamp Ghost.
The internet is a wonderful thing, and I am in two minds on how it affects the magazine business. It only takes one post to ruin an 'exclusive', but on the other hand it also alerts us to a 'potential' story that can be followed up indepth at a later date.
Anyhoo enough rambling from me, it just remains for me to thank Tim for his very kind comments about CW, and I would like to echo him and encourage you to subscribe to both of our wonderful journals
Lastly THANKS to all who continue to support both CW and WD, we certainly couldn't do it without you, we all share the same passion and as Tim said, it has been a blast to become friends with many of you, although being on the other side of the planet it isn't often Graham or I get the opportunity to meet you in person! I would however encourage you to let us know if your down this way so we can show you around our corner of the aviation world.
regards
Dave
Classic Wings
As Tim has already suggested, I have been following the thread with interest, and this same question does get asked about once a year - so it is good to get an update of the current mood of the good folks who frequent WIX.
I certainly concur with all of Tim's thoughts and found myself nodding my head reading his post. I must reiterate that the only way magazines can survive is through subscriptions ( which means the any profit returns directly to the magazine), so I would also encourage you 'sign up' to those that you enjoy, rather than buying them from a retailer.
Tim also makes very good points about respecting owners wishes, both CW and WD are often aware of events long before they are made public..........and it is very frustrating not being able to comment on the board when speculation flies about, Tim gave a few examples, and another that I can think of is the current situation regarding Swamp Ghost.
The internet is a wonderful thing, and I am in two minds on how it affects the magazine business. It only takes one post to ruin an 'exclusive', but on the other hand it also alerts us to a 'potential' story that can be followed up indepth at a later date.
Anyhoo enough rambling from me, it just remains for me to thank Tim for his very kind comments about CW, and I would like to echo him and encourage you to subscribe to both of our wonderful journals
Lastly THANKS to all who continue to support both CW and WD, we certainly couldn't do it without you, we all share the same passion and as Tim said, it has been a blast to become friends with many of you, although being on the other side of the planet it isn't often Graham or I get the opportunity to meet you in person! I would however encourage you to let us know if your down this way so we can show you around our corner of the aviation world.
regards
Dave
Classic Wings
Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:47 am
Well Tim and Dave, y'all have convinced me to stop with the occasional news stand purchases and go ahead and get the subscriptions to both of your magazines instead. Yeah, I'm an easy sale. But if it'll help y'all in keeping the magazines going, then it'll help us in reading what information is flowing. How about that, I made a rhyme! 
Gary
Gary
Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:36 am
Gary........
Dave
Dave
Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:18 am
DaveM2 wrote:Tim also makes very good points about respecting owners wishes, both CW and WD are often aware of events long before they are made public..........and it is very frustrating not being able to comment on the board when speculation flies about
Tell me about it. I have people tell me stuff all the time that is confidential and it kills me that I can't say more than the broadest things or nothing at all.
As for the future of magazines. The key to survival, IMHO, is quality. Good articles and great pictures will serve a magazines future well. News should be included for those that don't frequent the net but should not be the focus as a magazine cannot compete with the speed of the internet. A magazine cannot coast on mediocre content like some seem to do just because they have been around for awhile. WD and CW are two shining examples of magazines that seem to be geared specifically geared towards us, the enthusiasts and I think that is why they are successful. One suggestion I would make is to look into making PDF versions of back issues for sale. Maybe only do them for issues that are no longer available as back issues.
I subsribe to both WD and CW, but thats about it for aviation magazines.
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:09 pm
Scott WRG Editor wrote:PhantomAce08 wrote:Just as a side thought, it is good to check Ebay for subscriptions--they are much cheaper! For example, I bought my fiance a year of Road and Track for $2.50!
I tried that route once, nothing ever showed up
Yeah, but he still has the fiancé that likes to read Road & Track!
Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:21 pm
Scott WRG Editor wrote:One suggestion I would make is to look into making PDF versions of back issues for sale. Maybe only do them for issues that are no longer available as back issues.
Scott
Certainly something we are going to have to look at I think, as several of the early issues have long sold out and are still requested.........now where is that guy who invented the 24 hour clock.....I wonder if he could extend it to 28
Dave
p.s. I should also take the opportunity to thank Scott for allowing us a place where such issues can be openly discussed and where both CW and WD can put our respective magazines 'out there' to the like minded public.
Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:49 pm
OK, I will continue the magazine list.
Arthur Frommers Budget Travel! (Good till Jan 2008)
The new one just arrived and I'm off to the Rose Library!
(I am also the worst customer group those poor guys have in their Demographic. I read all the new ones while Shannon is shopping in the Barnes and Noble, and I may buy 1)
I may love getting those magazines in the mail, but I cannot afford to subscribe to 5 magazines while I am trying to figure out how to pay for a $350k two bedroom fixer upper, worrying about what rediculous argument is going to create the next $3 gallon of petrol.
BTW, Heres a side note:
I watched as the popularity of Volkswagen Magazines fall back over the years. The peak of the 70's/80's was withering away to nothing. One of the two big ones started filling up the magazine with 10 to 12 page warehouse vendor ads and then male enhancement ads, but the actual articles had been cut to just a few pages. That one is no longer.
Its a shame to not have a choice anymore. Hot VWs is it!
Keep up the good work guys! Thanks!
Arthur Frommers Budget Travel! (Good till Jan 2008)
The new one just arrived and I'm off to the Rose Library!
(I am also the worst customer group those poor guys have in their Demographic. I read all the new ones while Shannon is shopping in the Barnes and Noble, and I may buy 1)
I may love getting those magazines in the mail, but I cannot afford to subscribe to 5 magazines while I am trying to figure out how to pay for a $350k two bedroom fixer upper, worrying about what rediculous argument is going to create the next $3 gallon of petrol.
BTW, Heres a side note:
I watched as the popularity of Volkswagen Magazines fall back over the years. The peak of the 70's/80's was withering away to nothing. One of the two big ones started filling up the magazine with 10 to 12 page warehouse vendor ads and then male enhancement ads, but the actual articles had been cut to just a few pages. That one is no longer.
Its a shame to not have a choice anymore. Hot VWs is it!
Keep up the good work guys! Thanks!
Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:25 pm
Scott,
I also want to thank you once again, as without this forum, I probably wouldn't have been aware of either Classic Wings or Warbirds Digest. Somehow over the years, I was never aware of Classic Wings, and regret missing the earlier years. These two magazines have helped to fill in the hole from when Warbirds Worldwide ceased to exist. While I have almost all of their issues, including the special editions and Directories, they were all bought at a hobby shop 20 miles away. Had I known then that a subscription helps to keep a magazine alive, I would have subscribed to it.
I also want to thank you once again, as without this forum, I probably wouldn't have been aware of either Classic Wings or Warbirds Digest. Somehow over the years, I was never aware of Classic Wings, and regret missing the earlier years. These two magazines have helped to fill in the hole from when Warbirds Worldwide ceased to exist. While I have almost all of their issues, including the special editions and Directories, they were all bought at a hobby shop 20 miles away. Had I known then that a subscription helps to keep a magazine alive, I would have subscribed to it.
Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:09 pm
I hate not having time to read everything.
Currently Subscribing to: Warbird Digest
News Stand: Air Classics, Flight Journal (special issues), Aeroplane, Flypast, and whatever else is out there that catches my interest.
I accidentally let my subscription to CW lapse, so I shall renew it shortly (must get some money first since I'm only a poor college student).
Currently Subscribing to: Warbird Digest
News Stand: Air Classics, Flight Journal (special issues), Aeroplane, Flypast, and whatever else is out there that catches my interest.
I accidentally let my subscription to CW lapse, so I shall renew it shortly (must get some money first since I'm only a poor college student).