Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:30 am
Can any of you guys identify the two gentlemen standing on the Buchon? The fellow most fwd looks like Walter Wooten. 
Robbie
Robbie
Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:43 am
Ztex I'm glad your parents brought you up right! I hope you are doing the same with your kids
One can only try....(of course my boy is almost 6 feet tall now)
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Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:48 am
Connery,
That's great!
I have a few more pictures from that day...But no full shots of the B-17's
(my uncle flew B-24's and Dad built them so we were much more interseted in Diamond Lil.
I'll have to post a picture of the P-38 that was there too.
Thanks for sharing!
Zane
That's great!
I have a few more pictures from that day...But no full shots of the B-17's
(my uncle flew B-24's and Dad built them so we were much more interseted in Diamond Lil.
I'll have to post a picture of the P-38 that was there too.
Thanks for sharing!
Zane
Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:14 am
Zane,
That would be great. I only have one photo of the P-38's and it's not very good. It show's the CAF's Scatterbrain Kid II, and hidden behind it is White Lightnin'.
One of my most vivid memories from that time was from the day before the airshow. My dad and I were riding dirt bikes in the trails just to the south of the airport and I clearly remember White Ligntnin' make a couple of simulated strafing runs on us as we rode down one of the trails.
By the way, what High School did you go to?
That would be great. I only have one photo of the P-38's and it's not very good. It show's the CAF's Scatterbrain Kid II, and hidden behind it is White Lightnin'.
One of my most vivid memories from that time was from the day before the airshow. My dad and I were riding dirt bikes in the trails just to the south of the airport and I clearly remember White Ligntnin' make a couple of simulated strafing runs on us as we rode down one of the trails.
By the way, what High School did you go to?
Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:33 pm
DB2 wrote:Unless there is another Charlie Hilliard, I believe Charlie Hillard was killed at Sun-n-Fun in 96 when his Sea Fury flipped over on landing after a brake locked. He was asphixiated when his head was pinned forward.
Paul Morgan in the UK was killed in an identical accident as well.
So, if you ever buy a Fury/Sea Fury, or any plane with a bubble canopy, install a roll bar.
And be easy on the brakes as they are nose heavy....
Lynn
Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:00 pm
Talking of buchons,
Here's the UK's only fly Buchon, restored over several years it first flew this year. First pic is it during "Battle of Britain" film as Red 7, second is, as in condition 2006.
Martyn
Here's the UK's only fly Buchon, restored over several years it first flew this year. First pic is it during "Battle of Britain" film as Red 7, second is, as in condition 2006.
Martyn
Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:22 pm
DB2 wrote:Unless there is another Charlie Hilliard, I believe Charlie Hillard was killed at Sun-n-Fun in 96 when his Sea Fury flipped over on landing after a brake locked. He was asphixiated when his head was pinned forward.
Paul Morgan in the UK was killed in an identical accident as well.
So, if you ever buy a Fury/Sea Fury, or any plane with a bubble canopy, install a roll bar.
Charlie's brakes did NOT "lock up." He lost directional control of the airplane on landing and it got into the soft sand off the side of the runway, which caused the airplane to flip. It is unlikely that a roll bar would have saved Charlie, as the sand was so soft that even though the canopy had busted, the windshield stayed in tact and sunk through the sand. The canopy rails were even with the ground. What WOULD have saved Charlie would have been if they'd allowed the people standing around the airplane to pick it up. He suffocated. Simply getting enough people to lift the airplane just a few inches would have allowed his airway to take a breath.
Sorry for the rant, I just thought that everyone out there knew the facts and was surprised to read that they didn't.
Gary
Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:57 pm
retroaviation wrote:Simply getting enough people to lift the airplane just a few inches would have allowed his airway to take a breath.
Interesting comment Gary. I've heard it asked several times why, with so many people in attendance, that manpower was not used to lift the aircraft up a bit. Are you saying there were folks that wanted to do just that but were not allowed to?
Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:38 pm
One of the items we usually have access to at an airshow is a front-end loader of some type, manned during the whole flying part of the show.
It can move with the Crash crews and be available to lift either the nose or tail of an aircraft that has turned turtle.
We've tried to have this at every show since Charlie's incident and Harry Doan's similar accident a few years before.
Jerry
It can move with the Crash crews and be available to lift either the nose or tail of an aircraft that has turned turtle.
We've tried to have this at every show since Charlie's incident and Harry Doan's similar accident a few years before.
Jerry
Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:51 pm
DB2 wrote:Unless there is another Charlie Hilliard, I believe Charlie Hillard was killed at Sun-n-Fun in 96 when his Sea Fury flipped over on landing after a brake locked. He was asphixiated when his head was pinned forward.
Paul Morgan in the UK was killed in an identical accident as well.
So, if you ever buy a Fury/Sea Fury, or any plane with a bubble canopy, install a roll bar.
There is an even esier sollution, don't take the original out in the first place. Hawker built it that way for a reason.
Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:45 pm
I didn't mean to hijack the thread here...just got wound up a little bit with the Charlie comment. Yes, there were PLENTY of people there to lift the airplane enough to help Charlie. There are more details, but frankly, the whole thing just torques me off so bad that I hate to get into it too much. I'll just finish my part of this by saying that he could have been saved.
Gary
Gary
Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:17 pm
Did anyone at the time know that he was suffocating and that lifting the aircraft would have saved him, or is all this Monday night quarterbacking? A hard lesson to learn either way, but perhaps a similar tragedy can be prevented in the future.retroaviation wrote:I'll just finish my part of this by saying that he could have been saved.
Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:47 pm
bdk wrote:Did anyone at the time know that he was suffocating and that lifting the aircraft would have saved him, or is all this Monday night quarterbacking? A hard lesson to learn either way, but perhaps a similar tragedy can be prevented in the future.retroaviation wrote:I'll just finish my part of this by saying that he could have been saved.
Good question, and I'm sure that those of us who were friends with Charlie are doing some second guessing.
However, I do know that his crew chief was there and heard noises from Charlie (who was unconcious), which physicians have said was his body struggling to get a breath. Don't quote me on the exact terminology though, as I don't pretend to know the human physiology and how it works. I can also tell you that his crew chief was escorted away by the police, and I can tell you that one the guys from our shop was there and tried to go assist and they wouldn't allow him to go to the airplane. He then told them, via a radio, to just pick the darn airplane up by the factory break in the fusealge, and they came back with, "no, we're afraid the airplane will break in half."
Again, this is to everyone on this thread. I'm sorry if I sound tort, and I apologize for taking over the thread with this issue. I also know that my opinions are just that......opinions. But I can promise you that I was very thorough with finding out the events of this incident.
Gary
Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:24 pm
retroaviation wrote:Again, this is to everyone on this thread. I'm sorry if I sound tort, and I apologize for taking over the thread with this issue.
No need to apologize, Gary.
Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:17 pm
I'm confused,didn't the samething happen in this Skyraider at the TICO airshow in 92?
