Looking for Information on CAF Pilot Disney

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:13 pm

I am looking for information on a Confederate Air Force pilot named Richard "Dick" Disney. A photo would be great to have.

He was killed in the crash of PBY-6, Bu No. 64000 / N15KL in August of 1975.

I am also looking for photographs of the airplane, any remains, photos of the accident site, etc.

I found out today that his brother, Fredrick Disney, is a customer of mine.

I have been talking to Fred for about a year about his WWII service. He was a B-17 pilot in the 394th BG, 547th BS stationed at Grafton-Underwood. He was shot down on his first mission, Antwerp, on June 22, 1943, aboard B-17F 42-5853 "Salvage Queen," code SO*U. He was one of 3 that survived the event. He has a very interesting story about that...He spent the rest of the war in Luft Stalag 3.

It has taken me about a year to get most of the story.

T J Johansen · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:01 am

All I know is that the CAF bought two ex-Danish PBY-6s (N15KL & N16KL), both of which crashed fatally! The accident brief can be seen here: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=49788&key=0

I would contact the CAF to see if they have any photos in their archives. Who knows, maybe WIX contributor John Kerr might have something about this as he was involved with them around that time. The CAF website would be: http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/contact.html

T J

JohnH · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:05 pm

Pics and some info right here on WIX:

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/pbyregis ... 64000.html

JH

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:34 pm

John and TJ,

Thanks for the links. I had found that information but that is all I can find.

I can't find his name or any other information about him or the crash on-line.

Z

Brad · **Joined:** Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm **Posts:** 1131

The two pilots were Dick Disney and C.A. Skiles. Dick was the chief check pilot of the CAF for many years. If you get a hold of the CAF, they will probably have a picture. I've seen him in group pictures several years ago.

I'm pretty sure two other guys were killed also but I don't remember their names. Van Skiles, the pilot's brother, survived. I last saw him in the mid-late 80s.

DanteC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:20 pm

Did either one of these PBY's turn over in the water while doing a photo shoot? I could have sworn I remember that happening, but it may be my imagination.

Dante

Ztex · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:32 am

N16KL is the one that was involved in the water crash.

Brad,
Thanks for the information. I see that Skiles was instrumental in the development of the Tora Gang...

Zane

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:48 am

The aircraft involved in the water crash, N16KL was on a photo shoot, skimming the water when it struck a submerged objet & did a "hardover". A very sad day for the CAF. :cry:

Robbie

T J Johansen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:29 am

Brad wrote:

Van Skiles, the pilot's brother, survived. I last saw him in the mid-late 80s.

Wasn't he the "Texas Raiders" pilot for a lot of years too?

T J

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:34 am

Quote:

skimming the water when it struck a submerged objet & did a "hardover"

It was my understanding that the a/c didn't hit anything but the water and was flown into the water by the co with ensuing failure of the nose gear doors (a weak spot anyway). I really didin't need to hit a submerged object has waters like freaking concrete anyway. I understand that the a/c also had more pax onboard than its certification allowed (some didn't even have seats) and the following lawsuit cost the CAF $$$$$ and forced the sale of a number of a/c. If I'm wrong here please correct me. The CAF has a rotten history with PBYs. Flame suit on!

RickH · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:14 am

They were doing a simulated water landing. Pretty much a high speed run like the firebombers do when they are doing a refill.

Unfortunately Laguna Madre is full of shallow spots and submerged reefs. Some are shell and some are sand. My understanding was that while doing the simulated landing the botton of the plane hit a submerged reef, forward motion caused the flip.

Settlement was for 10 million.

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:22 am

Jack, I guess I have had a brain poot. My explaination about the N16KL accident (aircraft hitting submerged object) was the popular theory right after it happened, but I believe your explaination is the correct series of events. I stand corrected. Thanks. I sure don't want to be putting out misinformation especially when loss of life is involved.
Robbie

RickH · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:53 am

I remembered the first part of the NTSB report but forgot about the doors.

Here is the NTSB report;

Quote:

NTSB Identification: FTW85FA012 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 26726.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, October 13, 1984 in PORT ISABEL, TX
Aircraft: Consolidated-Vultee PBY-6A, registration: N16KL
Injuries: 7 Fatal, 3 Serious.
AERIAL PHOTOS WERE BEING TAKEN OF THE MISHAP ACFT. MISSION CALLED FOR A SIMULATED WATER LNDG (ACTUAL WATER LNDG PROHIBITED) BY FLYING AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO WATER. CO-PLT AT CONTROLS DESCENDED ACFT TO ABOUT 6 FT, THEN GRADUALLY REDUCED CLRNC TO 6-12 INCHES ABOVE WATER, AIRSPD 105 MPH. CO-PLT INADVERTANTLY ALLOWED ACFT TO TOUCH WATER. ON TOUCHDOWN, ACFT DECELERATED VIOLENTLY AND BROKE UP, EJECTING SEVERAL OF THE OCCUPANTS AND COMING TO REST INVERTED. EXAMINATION OF AERIAL PHOTOS SHOWS ACFT HULL AT TOUCHDOWN WAS SLIGHTLY NOSE DOWN VICE NORMAL LNDG ATTITUDE; WATER CONTACT MADE AT LOCATION OF NOSE LNDG GEAR DOORS. PHOTOS SHOW OUTWARD RUPTURING OF FWD HULL STRUCTURE, NOSE GEAR DOORS MISSING. HULL AT REAR OF STEP SHOWED TWO PARALLEL, 3-FT LONG BY 2-IN WIDE, FORE-TO-AFT AND OUTBD-TO-INBD PENETRATIONS. FLOOR OF SHALLOW LAGOON KNOWN TO HAVE SCATTERED DEBRIS FROM PETROLEM EXPLORATIONS; HOWEVER, NO POSITIVE DETERMINATION OF ACFT CONTACT WITH SUBMERGED OBJECT COULD BE MADE.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

CLEARANCE..MISJUDGED..COPILOT/SECOND PILOT
SUPERVISION..INADEQUATE..PILOT IN COMMAND
DOOR,LANDING GEAR..OVERLOAD
DOOR,LANDING GEAR..SEPARATION

Contributing Factors

TERRAIN CONDITION..WATER,GLASSY

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:05 am

When they made the PBY a Amphibian rather than a flying boat has it was originally the hull was weakened accordingly. The nose gear doors are the weakest point on the airplane and were checked before each water landing. This was a really stupid accident that cost 7 lives and never should have happened. Possibly the worst accident in CAF (and possibly in the civil history of the PBY) history.

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2923

Some of the details of the lawsuit can be found here, for those of you that speak legalese....
http://www.romingerlegal.com/fifthcircu ... 0.wpd.html

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