Canadian Swordfish
Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Hi all
Some time ago I was sent a letter asking if I was interested in a Swordfish in Canada for a Museum in Australia. I forwarded the letter to the Museum with a copy of the attached photo but nothing became of it.
I have now lost my copy of the letter and I was wondering if any canadian members can place the aircraft and tell me what became of it.
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/e ... ity=ZhbiEM
Regards
John P (Setter)
Some time ago I was sent a letter asking if I was interested in a Swordfish in Canada for a Museum in Australia. I forwarded the letter to the Museum with a copy of the attached photo but nothing became of it.
I have now lost my copy of the letter and I was wondering if any canadian members can place the aircraft and tell me what became of it.
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/e ... ity=ZhbiEM
Regards
John P (Setter)
Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:22 am
Hi Setter--
Can't seem to get into your album...but what does this 'fish look like? If it's a mainly juneau-white Mk.II serialled HS554, it's the Spence family's aircraft, restored from a hulk over a period of 21 years from 1970-91 and since flown sparingly from the Spences' farm strip at Muirkirk, Ontario. I haven't seen HS554 in a couple years but she was listed in the lineup for the recent Willow Run airshow, so is presumably still operational at Muirkirk.
If on the other hand it's a hulk, if it's indoors with the "Mk.IV" canopy in place it's probably the Reynolds Museum's in Alberta; if there's no canopy it might be one of the spare airframes the Spences used parts from in restoring HS554. Two other museum Swordfish exist in Canada, but there is little or no chance of either of them coming on the market--"NS122" (not its real s/n) at CAvM Rockcliffe, and HS469 at Shearwater NS.
Incidentally, the survival of a surprising number of Swordfish in Canada is largely down to one gent who collected "stuff" in the immediate postwar years, Ernie Simmons of Courtland, Ontario. The auction at Ernie's property following his death in 1970 included seven Swordfish IV hulks and over two dozen NA-64 Yales! An eighth 'fish had already been sold to what became CAvM, before Ernie died.
Cheers
S.
Can't seem to get into your album...but what does this 'fish look like? If it's a mainly juneau-white Mk.II serialled HS554, it's the Spence family's aircraft, restored from a hulk over a period of 21 years from 1970-91 and since flown sparingly from the Spences' farm strip at Muirkirk, Ontario. I haven't seen HS554 in a couple years but she was listed in the lineup for the recent Willow Run airshow, so is presumably still operational at Muirkirk.
If on the other hand it's a hulk, if it's indoors with the "Mk.IV" canopy in place it's probably the Reynolds Museum's in Alberta; if there's no canopy it might be one of the spare airframes the Spences used parts from in restoring HS554. Two other museum Swordfish exist in Canada, but there is little or no chance of either of them coming on the market--"NS122" (not its real s/n) at CAvM Rockcliffe, and HS469 at Shearwater NS.
Incidentally, the survival of a surprising number of Swordfish in Canada is largely down to one gent who collected "stuff" in the immediate postwar years, Ernie Simmons of Courtland, Ontario. The auction at Ernie's property following his death in 1970 included seven Swordfish IV hulks and over two dozen NA-64 Yales! An eighth 'fish had already been sold to what became CAvM, before Ernie died.
Cheers
S.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:43 am
Hi Steve
Try http://community.webshots.com/user/setter125 and go to photo dump 1 near the bottom of the list and I think you should see the shot
It is a machine out in the open with wings alongside a fuselage standing on gear in rough but complete shape with all the fabric gone. No canopy
Regards
John P
Try http://community.webshots.com/user/setter125 and go to photo dump 1 near the bottom of the list and I think you should see the shot
It is a machine out in the open with wings alongside a fuselage standing on gear in rough but complete shape with all the fabric gone. No canopy
Regards
John P
Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:06 am
Hmmm, Must be one of the machines in Western Canada. Ever seen this one Steve?
Eric
Eric
Swordfish ident
Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:42 am
Certainly isn't the Reynolds machine. I photographed that last month in store when I was visiting Canada (I'm in the UK) and it is in better condition than the one posted and has the canopy intact. Reynolds also have components from another i.e. a second canopy at least. Steve any idea of the identity of the Reynolds airframe please?
Re: Canadian Swordfish
Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:33 pm
I don't know for sure but I wonder if this is one of the extra Spense airframes.
Does Harry Whereatt have a fish? Could be him.
Also, I once heard a rumor there was a fish under restoration near Toronto. Wonder what happened to it.
Jim
Does Harry Whereatt have a fish? Could be him.
Also, I once heard a rumor there was a fish under restoration near Toronto. Wonder what happened to it.
Jim
Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:01 pm
Jim,
The Swordfish that was under restoration in Toronto was the Shearwater example. Got some good pics of that one. I also have a photo of the one at the Spences and it is only a partial fuselage and I don't think there are any wings with it.
Eric
The Swordfish that was under restoration in Toronto was the Shearwater example. Got some good pics of that one. I also have a photo of the one at the Spences and it is only a partial fuselage and I don't think there are any wings with it.
Eric
Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:51 pm
Eric,
Thanks...you sure Spence only has one extra fus?
Two other mystery fish would be the one that was at the Niagara Museum and then supposedly followed the Lanc to Oshawa. I know I never saw it there.
And didn't one go to a farm Museum in Southern Ontario?
I'd also love to know where the U.S. Simmons birds went. On is now with the CAF...but where did the other two or three go?
Jim
Thanks...you sure Spence only has one extra fus?
Two other mystery fish would be the one that was at the Niagara Museum and then supposedly followed the Lanc to Oshawa. I know I never saw it there.
And didn't one go to a farm Museum in Southern Ontario?
I'd also love to know where the U.S. Simmons birds went. On is now with the CAF...but where did the other two or three go?
Jim
Setter's Swordfish
Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:04 pm
Hi again guys--
Found the pic off the second link...then logged in to post and up came the pic large as life on the original post.
Anyway, the pic sent me to my Muirkirk airshow binder, specifically my shots of the '94 show, at which I remembered taking a couple shots of one of the spare Spence hulks. Coincidentally one of them is from nearly the same angle as Setter's shot, only closer. My shot is in late summer of course, not winter; and there were airshow snowfences, Johnnies-On-The-Spot, and one of those plastic scarecrow owls in my pic. I'm guessing there must be several years of time differential between the two shots also, as the tree visible in Setter's shot is much smaller in mine. But too many of the details of the airframe are an absolute match for this not to be the same Swordfish hulk. Setter, when was your shot taken?
BTW re serial numbers on the ex-Simmons Swordfish, some of those will probably never be known for sure. Even when NAC (now CAvM) got their Swordfish from Ernie in the sixties, they couldn't divine what its serial had been (and restored it as "NS122" because good photos existed of that postwar RCNVR 'fish). By 1970 the other 'fish had of course deteriorated even a little further. One ID, of the airframe that was displayed for a time (early 70s) at the Gratton-Weldwood Pioneer Museum in Lambeth, ON, was established as HS517 because that number was found PENCILED on the airframe! Actually I'm not even sure how the Spences worked out that their project airframe was HS554. (HS469 at Shearwater is apparently not ex-Simmons, or so I'm told; and I don't recall whether I ever heard what the serial of the Reynolds one was).
Must admit, it relieves me to find we weren't discussing the much-loved HS554 herself! Though I'm sure she'd be just as appreciated on the circuit in Oz...
Cheers
S.
Found the pic off the second link...then logged in to post and up came the pic large as life on the original post.
Anyway, the pic sent me to my Muirkirk airshow binder, specifically my shots of the '94 show, at which I remembered taking a couple shots of one of the spare Spence hulks. Coincidentally one of them is from nearly the same angle as Setter's shot, only closer. My shot is in late summer of course, not winter; and there were airshow snowfences, Johnnies-On-The-Spot, and one of those plastic scarecrow owls in my pic. I'm guessing there must be several years of time differential between the two shots also, as the tree visible in Setter's shot is much smaller in mine. But too many of the details of the airframe are an absolute match for this not to be the same Swordfish hulk. Setter, when was your shot taken?
BTW re serial numbers on the ex-Simmons Swordfish, some of those will probably never be known for sure. Even when NAC (now CAvM) got their Swordfish from Ernie in the sixties, they couldn't divine what its serial had been (and restored it as "NS122" because good photos existed of that postwar RCNVR 'fish). By 1970 the other 'fish had of course deteriorated even a little further. One ID, of the airframe that was displayed for a time (early 70s) at the Gratton-Weldwood Pioneer Museum in Lambeth, ON, was established as HS517 because that number was found PENCILED on the airframe! Actually I'm not even sure how the Spences worked out that their project airframe was HS554. (HS469 at Shearwater is apparently not ex-Simmons, or so I'm told; and I don't recall whether I ever heard what the serial of the Reynolds one was).
Must admit, it relieves me to find we weren't discussing the much-loved HS554 herself! Though I'm sure she'd be just as appreciated on the circuit in Oz...
Cheers
S.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:25 pm
There was one at the Museum of Flying in Santa Monica. But looking at my notes, it may be the one now with the CAF...
Model: Fairey-Blackburn Mk II Swordfish
S/N: HS164 RN
Owner: Museum of Flying
Codes: "2F"
History: Mk II HS164 RN, held by Ernie Simmons (1946 to 1970), N2235R, to Museum of Flying, to Commemorative Air Force
When I saw it back in '97 it was sans wings. Did the CAF find a set of wings, or are they building new ones?
Mike
Model: Fairey-Blackburn Mk II Swordfish
S/N: HS164 RN
Owner: Museum of Flying
Codes: "2F"
History: Mk II HS164 RN, held by Ernie Simmons (1946 to 1970), N2235R, to Museum of Flying, to Commemorative Air Force
When I saw it back in '97 it was sans wings. Did the CAF find a set of wings, or are they building new ones?
Mike
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:39 pm
Mike, that should be the same aircraft. The story I recall was that there were wings with it, but it was never displayed with them due to space limitations within the museum. Anyone else have more to add? Jim
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:05 am
Hi
Thanks to all for the help with this
Steve T - My shot would be a few years earlier than yours and If it is the same one is it still there - does anyone know - I would like it to come here if nobody is looking out for it as I am a real fan of the type - we all have our quirks
Kindest regards
John p
Thanks to all for the help with this
Steve T - My shot would be a few years earlier than yours and If it is the same one is it still there - does anyone know - I would like it to come here if nobody is looking out for it as I am a real fan of the type - we all have our quirks
Kindest regards
John p
Speaking about Reynold's storage area
Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:57 am
Speaking about Reynold's storage area
Tim, do you or someone else has any pics of the storage area ?
On the Fly-Past bord, MRP from Nova-Scotia posted a very nice picture of the Fish in storage.
Pictures where taken by MRP
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30190
Tim, do you or someone else has any pics of the storage area ?
On the Fly-Past bord, MRP from Nova-Scotia posted a very nice picture of the Fish in storage.
Pictures where taken by MRP
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30190
Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:16 pm
James Church wrote:Mike, that should be the same aircraft. The story I recall was that there were wings with it, but it was never displayed with them due to space limitations within the museum. Anyone else have more to add? Jim
I heard a story that Price lost the wings and it took some digging to find them when the CAF bought the plane. My understanding is that the plane wasn't owned by Price, but was on loan to the Museum.
Jim