Warbird Information Exchange

Sometimes, you find something new to yourself , which may be new to others...

I picked this link from air britain information exchange



http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0 ... Y=EV-003&M

Something does not look right to me. The Anson has more point tail feathers and rounded wings. Looks more like an Oxford or something like that to me. The fuselage also looks metal. ???? Not sure, maybe it is just me.

Eric

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Dear forum,

It's the photographer here. I believe it's really an Anson, but a late model which looked quite differently. I'd love to find out more about this aircraft. I could post more pictures of it if anybody thinks that is helpful.
Below is what I wrote about it in the airliners.net forum:

'In Indonesia I photographed this Avro Anson. The original aircraft commemorated here, as explained in the remark, was an Anson I, but this one is not. I would like to find out the Mk number and possibly more about it.
It looks like an Anson XI or XII, with raised roof and smooth engine cowlings. However, according to one source these had three square windows on each side only.
The shape of the wingtips I haven't seen on any other Anson picture. A few Ansons were built with metal wings, but these seem to have had the normal shape rounded tips.
The nose of this aircraft seems to be non-glazed on my pictures, but I'm not entirely sure.
Chances are that it comes from Australia, which had over 1,000 Ansons.
Any thoughts?
(I'm curious about the guy in the suit too, by the way. I assumed him to be either Halim Perdanakusuma, the pilot, or revolutionary leader Hatta, who was from this town, but he doesn't look much like their pictures.)'

Peter

Welcome Fogg1! I'd like to see more pics of the Anson. Yep, the wingtips,
horizontal tailplane and the slim cowlings seemed to elude ID from earlier
Ansons or Oxfords. Always interested in seeing the less common fair....

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Thanks Airnutz.

Here are some more pictures:

http://home.tiscali.nl/vliegmachines/anson1.jpg
http://home.tiscali.nl/vliegmachines/anson2.jpg
http://home.tiscali.nl/vliegmachines/anson3.jpg
http://home.tiscali.nl/vliegmachines/anson4.jpg

Any information much appreciated.

Peter

There is a brief news item of an Indonesian Avro Anson on http://www.warbirdalley.com/archive.htm#2003

Possibly the same aircraft?

Regards,

Jan

"September 2003:

The wreckage of an Avro Anson from the Indonesian Air Force which disappeared in December, 1947 has been discovered in a swamp in Indonesia. The plane is believed to have been shot down by Dutch P-51s during the country's war for independence, and was piloted by the founder of the Indonesian Air Force. A salvage operation is planned."

Reading in the Airliners.net news link, I saw this...



Any idea what happened to this A/C?

(other than the Feds selling it for aluminum can supply)

Thanks Jan.

I should have added that all my information comes from
http://nei.adf-serials.com/indonesian-a ... 945-50.pdf
by Jos Heymans from Riverton, Australia.

The article Jan is quoting certainly implies that that wreck is RI-003's, because it was the only Indonesian Anson in Dec 47. The 'founder of the Indonesian AF' would be a reference to Halim Perdanakusuma.

However, RI-003 supposedly crashed not in Indonesia but at Tanjung Hentu, Malaysia, which would also rule out a shootdown by Dutch P-51s.

Certainly , the aircraft on the pole does not look like it went through a fatal crash, and it is obviously not an Anson I. RI-003 was, according to my information, RAAF AX505 which should be an Anson I.

That said, it seems very possible that the found wreck, while not RI-003, is the aircraft now in Bukittinggi.

Anyway, there was a second Indonesian Anson according to Jos Heymans' article, and it occurs to me now that this might be the aircraft in Bukittinggi. Known data for that aircraft are as follows: Formerly RAF W2473. Operated by Airlines of WA as VH-AGX (a reg re-used for a Hudson). Also linked to the reg VH-BBY.

Does anyone have information, especially the Mark number, for W2473, VH-AGX, VH-BBY?

Peter

W2473 was from a 1940 batch of 1000 Anson 1's , most of witch were sent to Canada & Oz.

The Anson on display is clearly not an early Mk. , & it does not look like a later Mk. XX either (wrong wings ,tailplanes but correct engine cowlings ? ) ,maybe Anson with other bits cleverly/skillfully added on ?

EDITED to add link to pics of AnsonXXI for comparison
http://home.clara.net/acf/scale/scale-p ... anson.html
.

Maybe the 104' heat here is getting to me but some of the pieces on that airplane look like they came off a Piper Aztec!

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Picture is in Classic Wings magazine (NZ) now.
Several people seem convinced that this is not an Anson at all, but nobody seems able to tell what it is...

Peter

This aircraft can actually be seen in Google Earth:
0 16'19.10" S 100 22'01.60" E

Still very curious what it is.

If anyone visits Bukittinggi: go north in the main street, Jl Ahmad Yani, and keep going north, past a racetrack, for 2 miles. Then take the first significant on the left and you'll see the monument on your left hand side. I was told this is Bukittinggi's former airfield.

By the way, elsewhere in town there's a Harvard:
0 18'26.60" S 100 21'58.10" E
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0973125/M/

Peter

The crash of RI-003 at Tanjung Hantu in Malaysia is recorded in most Indonesian publications, including in 1950 editions of the AURI magazine Angkasa. Pilots Halim Perdanakusuma and Iswahjudi died in this crash, which was apparently caused by bad weather conditions.

When the Anson wreck was found in the Borneo jungle, the information that it was the wreck of RI-003 was featured by some local media, but based on all other documents published, it could not have been RI-003 or RI-004. Anson RI-004 was based in Bukittinggi during the 1947/1948 time frame, but was then transferred to Yogyakarta where it was captured by the Dutch in December 1948.

As for the Bukittinggi Anson, it could have been rebuilt based on the wreck, or it could be a complete new build, with no original airplane parts included, like the Indonesians did for Catalina RI-005 on display at Jambi.
It should be noted that this Anson livery (paint and roundels) is not accurate for RI-003 or RI-004, since the pentagon-shaped roundels started to appear in 1954.

HTH
Marc

Thanks Mark.

I'm not sure how good that Catalina mock-up is, but I find it a little hard to believe that this thing - whatever it is - has no original plane parts, seeing it has static discharge wicks and everything.

I tried to measure the fuslage in Google Earth and found a rough length of 12 metres, which is about right for an Anson, and while this doesn't proof anything, at least this is not a scale mock-up or a smaller aircraft.

Anyway, when I was there, for what that's worth, I was quite convinced that it was a real, and old aircraft. I still think the cabin with the seats and the shape of the rear door look especially realistic.

Although there is no proof, I rather like the theory that this thing was built up from the wreck found in (Indonesian) Borneo (Mark is referring to the find mentioned earlier by Jan I'm sure).

Peter