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[sandiego89]

The lineup of F-80s at (presumably) Burbank is interesting.
They way the aircraft seams are sealed I wonder if the photo wasn't taken during one of the type's early groundings.
The AAF couldn't take them but production was continued.....

Good theory. I would not imagine such taping and sealing during normal production. Or could be later 1945 when things when squadron deliveries were slowing down? As a P/F-80 fan I love that pic, have never seen such a gaggle of the type.

Keep them coming Mark!

[Baldeagle]

Is that Jimmy Dolittle in the desert Spitfire?



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[quemerford]

The lineup of F-80s at (presumably) Burbank is interesting.
They way the aircraft seams are sealed I wonder if the photo wasn't taken during one of the type's early groundings.
The AAF couldn't take them but production was continued.....

Good theory. I would not imagine such taping and sealing during normal production. Or could be later 1945 when things when squadron deliveries were slowing down? As a P/F-80 fan I love that pic, have never seen such a gaggle of the type.

Keep them coming Mark!

Of those shown, the earliest deliveries are three up the line next to the railroad tracks: 44-85407 thru 44-85409. They were all delivered for drone conversion from Burbank on 26 August 1946.

Probably also worth noting are aircraft which are NOT present, including 44-85399 and 44-85433: these were converted by Lockheed to FP-80A (RF-80A) recon birds and were delivered after conversion on 24 July and 6 September 1946. In fact there is an obvious gap in the line of aircraft by the railroad tracks between 44-85398 and 44-85400, so it seems likely that the gap is where '399 had been.

So the photo is not later than 26 August 1946 (when all identifiable aircraft were at Burbank) but it's difficult to go further than that. My guess is spring/early summer of 1946.

[sandiego89]

The lineup of F-80s at (presumably) Burbank is interesting.
They way the aircraft seams are sealed I wonder if the photo wasn't taken during one of the type's early groundings.
The AAF couldn't take them but production was continued.....

Good theory. I would not imagine such taping and sealing during normal production. Or could be later 1945 when things when squadron deliveries were slowing down? As a P/F-80 fan I love that pic, have never seen such a gaggle of the type.

Keep them coming Mark!

Of those shown, the earliest deliveries are three up the line next to the railroad tracks: 44-85407 thru 44-85409. They were all delivered for drone conversion from Burbank on 26 August 1946.

Probably also worth noting are aircraft which are NOT present, including 44-85399 and 44-85433: these were converted by Lockheed to FP-80A (RF-80A) recon birds and were delivered after conversion on 24 July and 6 September 1946. In fact there is an obvious gap in the line of aircraft by the railroad tracks between 44-85398 and 44-85400, so it seems likely that the gap is where '399 had been.

So the photo is not later than 26 August 1946 (when all identifiable aircraft were at Burbank) but it's difficult to go further than that. My guess is spring/early summer of 1946.

Thank you quemerford! I was just going down the rabbit hole of P-80 serial numbers and glad you shared! I imagined these serial numbers would have been later 45 or 1946 deliveries? I started with Bong being killed in new build 44-85048 in August 1945. Not sure how fast they were cranking them out. Didn't find anything obvious on acceptance dates on the web. Did you find anything on that?

[JohnB]

The lineup of F-80s at (presumably) Burbank is interesting.
They way the aircraft seams are sealed I wonder if the photo wasn't taken during one of the type's early groundings.
The AAF couldn't take them but production was continued.....

Good theory. I would not imagine such taping and sealing during normal production. Or could be later 1945 when things when squadron deliveries were slowing down? As a P/F-80 fan I love that pic, have never seen such a gaggle of the type.

Keep them coming Mark!

Of those shown, the earliest deliveries are three up the line next to the railroad tracks: 44-85407 thru 44-85409. They were all delivered for drone conversion from Burbank on 26 August 1946.

Probably also worth noting are aircraft which are NOT present, including 44-85399 and 44-85433: these were converted by Lockheed to FP-80A (RF-80A) recon birds and were delivered after conversion on 24 July and 6 September 1946. In fact there is an obvious gap in the line of aircraft by the railroad tracks between 44-85398 and 44-85400, so it seems likely that the gap is where '399 had been.

So the photo is not later than 26 August 1946 (when all identifiable aircraft were at Burbank) but it's difficult to go further than that. My guess is spring/early summer of 1946.

My thought was the shot was taken during the first large grounding which began after Major Bong was killed.

The type was grounded between Aug. 7, 1945 and Sept 1. On Sept 1, the order was amended to allow flight testing and service trials, the order was not completely lifted until 7 November.

I have read that the factory was tooled up to produce 30 aircraft a day had the Pacific war lasted longer. I do not know if it ever reached that number.
In any event, even with a lower production rate, the three month grounding could easily account for such a backlog.

[Mark Allen M]

[Mark Allen M]

[Mark Allen M]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pnwDqt]

[Mark Allen M]

[JohnB]

Great head-on shot of the B-24 and B-17.
Probably taken in the UK.
The '17 crew is interesting, I wonder if the tall captain (the one not wearing an A-2) is the co-pilot? The lieutenant with the headphones, the navigator?

It would be a great reference for a modeler painting figures for a diorama.

Love the Liberator crew's mascot.
You don't see many Cocker Spaniels anymore.

Last edited by JohnB on Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Mark Allen M]

[Firebird]

Great head-on shot of the B-24 and B-17.
Probably taken in the UK.
The '17 crew is interesting, I wonder if the tall captain (the one not wearing an A-2) is the co-pilot? The lieutenant with the headphones, the navigator?

Also the officers are equally split in two wearing standard OD51 trousers and the other two unusually wearing their OD54 'pinks' which were usually kept for 'best' and not worn with flight gear.

Great photo's and an amazing snap-shot in time..........and they could almost have been taken last week, not 80 years ago...!!

That first one with Sally B at Wright Field is terrific. I assume the Sally B team have been made aware of this photo?

[JohnB]

That first one with Sally B at Wright Field is terrific. I assume the Sally B team have been made aware of this photo?

I thought of that when I identified Sally B in that photo a couple of days ago.
I figured they likely have it in their archives, I have a Sally B booklet from my time in the UK and they do have a lot of history on the aircraft.

If not, I'm sure one of their supporters will see it here and forward it to them.

[quemerford]

My thought was the shot was taken during the first large grounding which began after Major Bong was killed.

The type was grounded between Aug. 7, 1945 and Sept 1. On Sept 1, the order was amended to allow flight testing and service trials, the order was not completely lifted until 7 November.

I have read that the factory was tooled up to produce 30 aircraft a day had the Pacific war lasted longer. I do not know if it ever reached that number.
In any event, even with a lower production rate, the three month grounding could easily account for such a backlog.

Having looked at the record cards, I don't think this is it. Up to the date of Bong's accident, Lockheed had delivered 85 P-80As (not including the XP/YP-80s). The immediate effect seems to be that delivery was stopped for squadron use, and test aircraft were delivered by road, presumably so that test flying could continue away from habitation. So for example, s/n 44-85081 (a squadron aircraft) carries an annotation 'deferred' on 8 August and was not in fact delivered until 28 November.

Two other aircraft (44-85042 and 44-85043) were being winterized for testing at Ladd AAF and seem to have been either at Dallas or Burbank while the grounding was in effect: they are shown as 'on hand' ready for deployment on 20 November 1945.

Then we have 44-85044 thru 44-85049 (less 44-85048, which was the Bong crash aircraft), all trucked to Muroc for testing there. A further aircraft, 44-85077, was trucked to Van Nuys (for mods?) and now in natural metal finish, was later delivered by an ATSC pilot to Muroc.

Deliveries to the squadrons then recommenced at the end of November and seem to have proceeded thereafter at what looks like a normal rate. Aircraft s/n 44-85300 was accepted in April 1946 and sometime after that Lockheed appears to have stopped delivery again (or at least slowed it down).

So I think the photo can now be dated to sometime between April and July 1946.

It's an interesting period and highlights how much we need a decent book on the type!

[JohnB]

But we don't know what event would account for such a large backlog at the factory.
Was there another grounding in 1946 timeframe you mention?

I have not seen any mention of one in my Lockheed histories.

I agree, the P-80 (since we are talking about pre-1947 events here ) has been shortchanged by history.
Eclipsed as a fighter in Korea (but it made a better name for itself than any other w wiki developed jet) and made (through its T-33 progeny) ubiquitous/too common to care about, a good history with a strong emphasis on its development is overdue.