Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:47 am
That is a really cool colour scheme Tim, what a fantastic choice.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:04 pm
The real question is, does it represent the aircraft that it actually is, or is it just another incorrect scheme that doesn't represent its history at any point in time?
Will
Will
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:55 pm
Blackbirdfan wrote:The real question is, does it represent the aircraft that it actually is, or is it just another incorrect scheme that doesn't represent its history at any point in time?
Will
Wow, you've obviously learned a lot in conflict resolution training by knowing how to make non-confrontational statements that don't elicit a response or are divisive.
Really, let it go, who cares!
When you get your own P-40, let us know, then we'll take your criticism seriously.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 2:07 pm
2Lt John Dave Landers arrived in the 9th Pursuit Squadron, 49th Pursuit Group when he delivered a P-40E to the squadron at Batchelor Field, Australia on 3 April 1942. The following day he scrambled on his first combat mission and scored his first confirmed kill. This would be the first of 14 ½ confirmed victories scored by Landers in P-40s, P-38s, and P-51s in the Pacific Theater of Operations (PTO) and the European Theater of Operations (ETO).
John D. Landers was born in 1920 in Oklahoma, but moved to Texas by the time he was 18 and spent most of his life in Texas. He attended Texas A&M and Arkansas State College before enlisting in the Army Air Corps and beginning pilot training in March 1941. He received his pilot wings at Stockton Field on 12 Dec 1941, five days after Pearl Harbor. He went through fighter transition training before shipping out to Australia to join the 49th Pursuit Group.
On 4 April 1942, Landers scrambled with the 9th PS against a formation of seven Mitsubishi G4M “Betty” bombers escorted by only three Mitsubishi A6M Reisen “Zekes” aka “Zeros.” Landers lost power soon after take-off and could not keep up with the squadron that was headed toward Darwin. Instead of aborting and returning to Batchelor Field, he decided to climb up to 20,000 and orbit along the normal ingress route used by the Japanese airplanes. All alone, Landers spotted the Japanese formation flying inbound toward Darwin. Several years later Landers recounted the following description of his flight to author, Ernie McDowell:
“I started having that same sinking feeling I used to get before a football game back home in Texas, but this was a hundred times worse. I circled above them but didn’t have the slightest idea where to start. I couldn’t decide how to attack, so I just dove on them. I don’t’ know why, it was more a reflex than anything else. I tore into the middle of the formation, found a bomber in my sights, and fired. One of the engines quickly caught fire, which spread to the fuselage and the bomber came apart.
By that time, the Zeros were after me. I must have looked like cold turkey to them, and I almost was. They punched holes in my P-40 from the wings to the tail and knocked out my radio. I shoved the stick forward and dove away. After losing them I climbed back up to wait; I knew that they would come back the way they went in. In the distance I could see the battle over Darwin. One by one, the Japanese bombers spun down on fire, until there were only three left and none of the Zeros.
When the three came back they passed directly under me and I attacked from line astern. This time there was no hesitation; my ‘buck-fever’ was gone. I made a couple of passes and one went down immediately. The other two kept flying although they were badly damaged and later crashed on the other side of Melville Island. These two were credited to the squadron as a whole since they had been pretty shot up before I hit them.”
Landers moved to 14-Mile Field, Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea with the 9th Fighter Squadron. He achieved four more confirmed kills flying P-40Es. Landers became an ace on 26 December 1942 when the 9th FS engaged large formations of Zekes and Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa “Oscars.” Landers shot down two Oscars before he trapped another Oscar at his six o’clock and was shot down. (Some sources report that he engaged Zekes.)
Landers bailed out and was lucky to wander into a friendly native village. The villagers helped him return to his squadron at Port Moresby. He returned to the U.S. soon afterward, in January 1943, and became a P-38 instructor pilot in a fighter transition squadron.
He returned to combat in April 1944, but not to the 49th FG in the PTO. Landers was assigned commander of the 38th FS of the 55th FG at Wormingford, England flying P-38s. He shot down his first German airplane, a Focke-Wulf Fw 190 on 25 June 1944. He shot down three Messerschmitt Bf 109s on 7 July 1944 before his wing converted to P-51Ds.
In the fall of 1944 Landers was transferred to the 357th FG as acting wing commander. He scored his first victory flying a P-51 on 18 November 44 before returning to the U.S. in December for a short rest.
Colonel John Landers returned to ETO as commander of the 78th FG at Duxford in January 1945. He scored 3 ½ kills for a total of 14 ½ confirmed victories. His ½ kill was a shared victory over a Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter.
After Victory Europe Day he assumed command of 361st Fighter Group and prepared to move to the PTO. The Japanese surrendered before the 361st FG could move to the Pacific and John Landers was discharged from the Army Air Force on 28 Mar 1946.
John Landers married first Emma Mathilde Schuurman, born in the Netherlands, and second Kathryn Louise McCoy. He worked for several pipeline companies in Texas before joining Brown & Root Industrial Services (a construction company) in 1956. John Landers retired in 1975 and died in Granbury, TX in 1989 from complications during surgery.
References:
General Kenney Reports, George C. Kenney, 1949, p. 171.
The P-40 Kittyhawk, Ernest R. McDowell, 1968, pp. 31.
Flying Buccaneers, The Illustrated Story of Kenney’s Fifth Air Force, Steve Birdsall, 1977, p. 40.
49th Fighter Group, Ernest R. McDowell, 1989, pp. 8, 14, 25.
Protect & Avenge, The 49th Fighter Group in World War II, 1996, Steve W. Ferguson & William K. Pascalis, 1996, pp. 60, 61, 100, 101.
American Fighter Aces Album, 1996, p. 283.
49th Fighter Group, Aces of the Pacific, William N. Hess, 2004, pp. 13, 22, 70.
Wikipedia
John D. Landers was born in 1920 in Oklahoma, but moved to Texas by the time he was 18 and spent most of his life in Texas. He attended Texas A&M and Arkansas State College before enlisting in the Army Air Corps and beginning pilot training in March 1941. He received his pilot wings at Stockton Field on 12 Dec 1941, five days after Pearl Harbor. He went through fighter transition training before shipping out to Australia to join the 49th Pursuit Group.
On 4 April 1942, Landers scrambled with the 9th PS against a formation of seven Mitsubishi G4M “Betty” bombers escorted by only three Mitsubishi A6M Reisen “Zekes” aka “Zeros.” Landers lost power soon after take-off and could not keep up with the squadron that was headed toward Darwin. Instead of aborting and returning to Batchelor Field, he decided to climb up to 20,000 and orbit along the normal ingress route used by the Japanese airplanes. All alone, Landers spotted the Japanese formation flying inbound toward Darwin. Several years later Landers recounted the following description of his flight to author, Ernie McDowell:
“I started having that same sinking feeling I used to get before a football game back home in Texas, but this was a hundred times worse. I circled above them but didn’t have the slightest idea where to start. I couldn’t decide how to attack, so I just dove on them. I don’t’ know why, it was more a reflex than anything else. I tore into the middle of the formation, found a bomber in my sights, and fired. One of the engines quickly caught fire, which spread to the fuselage and the bomber came apart.
By that time, the Zeros were after me. I must have looked like cold turkey to them, and I almost was. They punched holes in my P-40 from the wings to the tail and knocked out my radio. I shoved the stick forward and dove away. After losing them I climbed back up to wait; I knew that they would come back the way they went in. In the distance I could see the battle over Darwin. One by one, the Japanese bombers spun down on fire, until there were only three left and none of the Zeros.
When the three came back they passed directly under me and I attacked from line astern. This time there was no hesitation; my ‘buck-fever’ was gone. I made a couple of passes and one went down immediately. The other two kept flying although they were badly damaged and later crashed on the other side of Melville Island. These two were credited to the squadron as a whole since they had been pretty shot up before I hit them.”
Landers moved to 14-Mile Field, Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea with the 9th Fighter Squadron. He achieved four more confirmed kills flying P-40Es. Landers became an ace on 26 December 1942 when the 9th FS engaged large formations of Zekes and Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa “Oscars.” Landers shot down two Oscars before he trapped another Oscar at his six o’clock and was shot down. (Some sources report that he engaged Zekes.)
Landers bailed out and was lucky to wander into a friendly native village. The villagers helped him return to his squadron at Port Moresby. He returned to the U.S. soon afterward, in January 1943, and became a P-38 instructor pilot in a fighter transition squadron.
He returned to combat in April 1944, but not to the 49th FG in the PTO. Landers was assigned commander of the 38th FS of the 55th FG at Wormingford, England flying P-38s. He shot down his first German airplane, a Focke-Wulf Fw 190 on 25 June 1944. He shot down three Messerschmitt Bf 109s on 7 July 1944 before his wing converted to P-51Ds.
In the fall of 1944 Landers was transferred to the 357th FG as acting wing commander. He scored his first victory flying a P-51 on 18 November 44 before returning to the U.S. in December for a short rest.
Colonel John Landers returned to ETO as commander of the 78th FG at Duxford in January 1945. He scored 3 ½ kills for a total of 14 ½ confirmed victories. His ½ kill was a shared victory over a Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter.
After Victory Europe Day he assumed command of 361st Fighter Group and prepared to move to the PTO. The Japanese surrendered before the 361st FG could move to the Pacific and John Landers was discharged from the Army Air Force on 28 Mar 1946.
John Landers married first Emma Mathilde Schuurman, born in the Netherlands, and second Kathryn Louise McCoy. He worked for several pipeline companies in Texas before joining Brown & Root Industrial Services (a construction company) in 1956. John Landers retired in 1975 and died in Granbury, TX in 1989 from complications during surgery.
References:
General Kenney Reports, George C. Kenney, 1949, p. 171.
The P-40 Kittyhawk, Ernest R. McDowell, 1968, pp. 31.
Flying Buccaneers, The Illustrated Story of Kenney’s Fifth Air Force, Steve Birdsall, 1977, p. 40.
49th Fighter Group, Ernest R. McDowell, 1989, pp. 8, 14, 25.
Protect & Avenge, The 49th Fighter Group in World War II, 1996, Steve W. Ferguson & William K. Pascalis, 1996, pp. 60, 61, 100, 101.
American Fighter Aces Album, 1996, p. 283.
49th Fighter Group, Aces of the Pacific, William N. Hess, 2004, pp. 13, 22, 70.
Wikipedia
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:05 pm
Dan K wrote:Xray wrote:The orange framed eagle looks pretty awkward, but I assume its an original marking, so ,,,
C'mon man...it took almost 3 minutes (over morning coffee) to pull up additional "awkward" 49th FG schemes:
"Star Dust" (White 86)
https://www.ww2online.org/image/view-so ... t-andrew-j
White 83
https://www.ww2online.org/image/curtiss ... uinea-1942
"Scatterbrain" (White 70)
https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-40/49FG/p ... 42-02.html
Ps. Really enjoying the new paint, Tim Savage! I'm gonna' need a larger drool rag at Oshkosh for all the Curtisses.
Don't care, looks like crap original or not, to be blunt
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:46 pm
Xray wrote:Don't care, looks like crap original or not, to be blunt
It not only looks great, but it’s a great tribute to great heroes who were honorable, brave and had brass balls and the courage to defend their country at a time when this country stood together as one under dire circumstances. (Something younger generations could use for inspiration these days). And this particular P-40 is proudly owned by one of the very best Warbird owners in the business who not only shares his passion and property with us here on WIX but who has chosen to spend incredible amounts of his own money and time to honor those pilots who fought and died so guys like you can continue to enjoy your free will callousness and uninhibited negativity…. to be blunt.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:55 pm
Mark Allen M wrote:Xray wrote:Don't care, looks like crap original or not, to be blunt
It not only looks great, but it’s a great tribute to great heroes who were honorable, brave and had brass balls and the courage to defend their country at a time when this country stood together as one under dire circumstances. (Something younger generations could use for inspiration these days). And this particular P-40 is proudly owned by one of the very best Warbird owners in the business who not only shares his passion and property with us here on WIX but who has chosen to spend incredible amounts of his own money and time to honor those pilots who fought and died so guys like you can continue to enjoy your free will callousness and uninhibited negativity…. to be blunt.
True and well said
I'll add this, the aircrews and ground crews who painted these aircraft, didn't give a rats tushy, how someone 80 years down the road would perceive it, or whether they liked or disliked the scheme. Mr Savage chose to pick a paint job that depicted a unique scheme. That is his right, it's his aircraft, his money, his choice, he doesn't need anyone's approval.
I thank him and others like him for sharing their passion and aircraft, with people like me who will NEVER own a warbird, and for sharing it here. I for one like the scheme, and it's not another shark mouth bird, which is refreshing.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:18 pm
That's the coolest looking P-40N I've ever seen! 
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:05 pm
Mark Allen M wrote:Xray wrote:Don't care, looks like crap original or not, to be blunt
It not only looks great, but it’s a great tribute to great heroes who were honorable, brave and had brass balls and the courage to defend their country at a time when this country stood together as one under dire circumstances. (Something younger generations could use for inspiration these days). And this particular P-40 is proudly owned by one of the very best Warbird owners in the business who not only shares his passion and property with us here on WIX but who has chosen to spend incredible amounts of his own money and time to honor those pilots who fought and died so guys like you can continue to enjoy your free will callousness and uninhibited negativity…. to be blunt.
Try not to trip off your soap box, and I sure don't need lectures from you on heroism.
It is obviously a beautiful aircraft and the owner can paint it polka dots if he wants, if thats Ok with you, Adolf.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:32 am
Your right! You don’t need lectures. What you need is therapy.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:39 pm
Sadly its incorrectly restored as an aircraft that it never was, and never will be. It should have been restored to this. https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-40/A29-414.html as that is its real history and true identity.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Sat Dec 16, 2023 6:04 pm
Sadly you haven’t offered to repaint it. Only to complain about it.
But in the spirit of the holidays, I’m sure many of us will look forward to your P-40 being not only restored to exact wartime condition, but to represent its exact wartime paint scheme. I wish you all the luck and success at that endeavor.
But in the spirit of the holidays, I’m sure many of us will look forward to your P-40 being not only restored to exact wartime condition, but to represent its exact wartime paint scheme. I wish you all the luck and success at that endeavor.
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:03 am
Leave it to WIXers to turn a harmless feel good story into a venue for nastiness over a simple disagreement.
The owner is free to paint his airplane.
A forum reader has is free to state his opinion.
He was fairly polite about it, though I might have used different words.
What is so difficult to understand?
I'm sure the P-40 owner (who probably hasn't seen this) recognizes his tastes may not be shared by everyone.
No need to get nasty about a difference of opinion.
I have some antique cars, I know not everyone is going to like them as much as I do.
Heck, I know some (mind you, probably sick, disturbed individuals) will disagree with my favorite pizza toppings, the music I like, or what I wear.
You know, vital stuff.
I'll break out my desert BDUs and await incoming.....Where did I put that helmet?
The owner is free to paint his airplane.
A forum reader has is free to state his opinion.
He was fairly polite about it, though I might have used different words.
What is so difficult to understand?
I'm sure the P-40 owner (who probably hasn't seen this) recognizes his tastes may not be shared by everyone.
No need to get nasty about a difference of opinion.
I have some antique cars, I know not everyone is going to like them as much as I do.
Heck, I know some (mind you, probably sick, disturbed individuals) will disagree with my favorite pizza toppings, the music I like, or what I wear.
You know, vital stuff.
I'll break out my desert BDUs and await incoming.....Where did I put that helmet?
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:25 am
Don't care, looks like crap original or not, to be blunt
Yeah sure thing, just a simple disagreement. And the “owner” has read this thread and the owner most likely won’t be participating any longer, to which would not be surprising. Added to the already sad list of owners and other warbird insiders who justifiably don’t have time or ambition on WIX for simple disagreements and fairly polite comments, like the quote above.
And you are correct, the owner can indeed paint his plane anyway he chooses, BUT!! this forum is not a Democracy. There’s no first amendment rights here. The owner of this forum has the final say on anyone’s opinions and Scott has made it quite clear on WIX for years and years, of which through several errors of my own, I’m no exception to his rule either. “Be nice or be gone.”
What is so difficult to understand?
Re: Tim Savage's P-40N gets a Repaint!
Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:59 am
I think it looks great. It was established many years ago on WIX by the experts that "paint is only paint" So, as long as they aren't chopping it into a Reno racer or modernizing with a turboprop, there's nothing to worry about. This paint scheme hasn't been done before and at least it doesn't have Russian stars on it.
The owner intends to keep it a long time and he may enjoy various P-40 schemes as he sees fit. We enthusiasts can don our smoking jackets and slippers, sit back in our highback Trafalgars and ottomans, light a smoke, sip a libation, and enjoy vicariously the efforts, passions, and hard work of others!
The owner intends to keep it a long time and he may enjoy various P-40 schemes as he sees fit. We enthusiasts can don our smoking jackets and slippers, sit back in our highback Trafalgars and ottomans, light a smoke, sip a libation, and enjoy vicariously the efforts, passions, and hard work of others!
Last edited by marine air on Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.