Fatal P-40E crash Montana 06/27/2023

[marine air]

It apparently hit wings level, very hard and we can't tell if he had entered a spin or something else. It wasn't suicide, thank goodness. Also, his legal problems, IRS or whatever are part of doing daily business in the corporate world at that level. That's why many companies have legal counsel on staff. As for the airport, we used to fly Hank Williams Jr into Missoula because although his ranch is in Hamilton, the airport didn't have anything larger than a King Air 90. The runway was too short and a little rough. I'm surprised they even have a fire department .

[JohnB]

While it's a bit unseemly to discuss the remains of an aircraft so soon after losing its pilot (which should be out main thought), I'll point it the wreckage is in one piece, more or less. Looks like there is more there than the wrecks that came out of Russia or Pacific.

Doesn't look much worse than the aftermath of the fatal CAF P-51 crash years ago. That aircraft was rebuilt and flies today.

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

[k5083]

Also, his legal problems, IRS or whatever are part of doing daily business in the corporate world at that level. That's why many companies have legal counsel on staff.

No. Not in this case.

August

[Mark Allen M]

Also, his legal problems, IRS or whatever are part of doing daily business in the corporate world at that level. That's why many companies have legal counsel on staff.

No. Not in this case.

August

Agreed!

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/cour ... len-paying

Tragic loss.

[LegendaryWings]

While it's a bit unseemly to discuss the remains of an aircraft so soon after losing its pilot (which should be out main thought), I'll point it the wreckage is in one piece, more or less. Looks like there is more there than the wrecks that came out of Russia or Pacific.

Doesn't look much worse than the aftermath of the fatal CAF P-51 crash years ago. That aircraft was rebuilt and flies today.

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Actually, this P-40 was a rebuild based on a wreck that was recovered from Russia.

[lmritger]

While it's a bit unseemly to discuss the remains of an aircraft so soon after losing its pilot (which should be out main thought), I'll point it the wreckage is in one piece, more or less. Looks like there is more there than the wrecks that came out of Russia or Pacific.

Doesn't look much worse than the aftermath of the fatal CAF P-51 crash years ago. That aircraft was rebuilt and flies today.

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Well, Mickael Rabilloud thinks they're worth enough to have created CAD files to tool up and build an entire P-40. I don't think it's a stretch to presume this ship will eventually be rebuilt.

Lynn

[Tim Savage]

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Huh? There isn't a 'sizeable' difference between Mustang and P-40 values....

[Tim Savage]

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Huh? There isn't a 'sizeable' difference between Mustang and P-40 values....

[menards]

Oh no, this is terrible news!
Paul Ehlen (the pilot) was also the owner of the P-51D Sierra Sue II, a TBM-3 Avenger, an AT-6D, and a Stearman N2S. So, I wonder if the rest of his collection will come up for sale soon?

the DOJ would have forced the sale of the collection regardless...$500 milion is a big nut to cover.

[Tim Savage]

Oh no, this is terrible news!
Paul Ehlen (the pilot) was also the owner of the P-51D Sierra Sue II, a TBM-3 Avenger, an AT-6D, and a Stearman N2S. So, I wonder if the rest of his collection will come up for sale soon?

the DOJ would have forced the sale of the collection regardless...$500 milion is a big nut to cover.

Most certainly be appealed. I think this case has been ongoing for ten years...and I doubt it is anywhere near over....

[Tim Savage]

Oh no, this is terrible news!
Paul Ehlen (the pilot) was also the owner of the P-51D Sierra Sue II, a TBM-3 Avenger, an AT-6D, and a Stearman N2S. So, I wonder if the rest of his collection will come up for sale soon?

the DOJ would have forced the sale of the collection regardless...$500 milion is a big nut to cover.

Most certainly be appealed. I think this case has been ongoing for ten years...and I doubt it is anywhere near over....

[JohnB]

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Huh? There isn't a 'sizeable' difference between Mustang and P-40 values....

Everytime I see a Mustang it seems to be $3 million+.
There is currently a P-40 listed for $2.4 million, the most I have ever seen for a Curtiss...not that I scan the classifieds daily.
Of course model rarity, history and age of restoration (hours) would play a huge part. So a great P-40 could bring more than a so-so Mustang.

I believe my acquaintance paid much more for his Mustang than his P-40....not that I would ever have the bad manners to ask him directly.

[Tim Savage]

The difference is that is a rare Mustang.
This is a P-40, so a sizeable difference in value.

Huh? There isn't a 'sizeable' difference between Mustang and P-40 values....

Everytime I see a Mustang it seems to be $3 million+.
There is currently a P-40 listed for $2.4 million, the most I have ever seen for a Curtiss...not that I scan the classifieds daily.
Of course model rarity, history and age of restoration (hours) would play a huge part. So a great P-40 could bring more than a so-so Mustang.

I believe my acquaintance paid much more for his Mustang than his P-40....not that I would ever have the bad manners to ask him directly.

Having shopped for both, and purchased one in the last two years....I can tell you there isn't that great of a difference between a standard P-51 and a P-40. The TFs of course are a whole different matter...the carry about a 1.5 million dollar premium at the moment. This is of course currently a lack of inventory so prices may vary depending on how bad somoene wants one at a given time. I just know at the time I bought my P-40 i could have bought three different P-40s within the range that I paid and three different Mustangs. All within 10% of each other.

[marine air]

At the 2022 NWOX conference a speaker said there 200 fighters, all types flying in the U.S. Of that, there are 160 P-51s and all the other types make up the remaining forty. Many of the fighter types have reached iconic status and so collectors sit on them even if they've lost interest in flying or keeping them flyable. We tend to focus on the most gorgeous P-51's like Sierra Sue, Swamp Fox, etc. Not every aircraft has been restored to the highest level of authenticity imaginable. Many were restored 10, 20, 30, even 50 years ago.
Part of the current inflated prices have to do with what it costs to have a wreck brought in and restored to the highest standard imaginable. Say, three to six million USD. I've been looking for a particular model of fighter for about 2 1/2 years. I've watched the ceiling go from $800k to $2 million even though there aren't any for sale. I quit calling my broker as he was raising the acquisition cost by $100k per month. I guess the intent was to march me up to the $2 million point and I could just buy an "ok" P-51D.
So, it's a very hot market for airplanes that typically have one or two seats, can't or don't fly IFR, and can't be used for corporate or family use. There are some pretty great alternatives to warbirds when you go above $2 million to $10 million.

[ZRX61]

Oh no, this is terrible news!
Paul Ehlen (the pilot) was also the owner of the P-51D Sierra Sue II, a TBM-3 Avenger, an AT-6D, and a Stearman N2S. So, I wonder if the rest of his collection will come up for sale soon?

the DOJ would have forced the sale of the collection regardless...$500 milion is a big nut to cover.

Depends if the aircraft were *owned* by a 501c3 etc