Not aviation related, but...............WWII sub found
Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:30 pm
HONOLULU (June 17) - For 60 years, Nancy Kenney wondered what happened to her father.
The submarine that William T. Mabin was in disappeared while he and his crewmates were on a mission to attack a Japanese convoy in the last months of World War II.
Now, the Navy says a wreck found at the bottom of the Gulf of Thailand appears to be the sub, the USS Lagarto.
"I have never in my life, unequivocally, felt such a high," said Kenney, who was 2 years old when her father and the submarine did not return from their mission in May 1945.
"We can just feel a sense of relief and a sense of peace in knowing what happened and where they are," said Kenney, of Lake LeeLanau, Mich.
Navy divers on Friday completed a six-day survey of the wreckage site. They took photos and video of the 311-foot, 9-inch submarine for further analysis by naval archeologists.
The divers found twin 5-inch gun mounts on the forward and rear parts of the ship - a feature believed to be unique to the Lagarto.
They also saw the word "Manitowoc" displayed on the submarine's propeller, providing a connection to the Manitowoc, Wis., shipyard that built the Lagarto in the 1940s.
Eighty-six sailors died when the Lagarto sank in May 1945. The Japanese minelayer Hatsutaka reported dropping depth charges and sinking a U.S. sub in the area, though it was never known what ship it destroyed.
The Navy sent its divers to examine the ship to provide the sailors' families with some answers after a British professional shipwreck diver last year found what looked like the Lagarto, said Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Davis, a spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Fleet Submarine Force.
"It was important to bring a sense of closure to these families and it was important to do it in a way that would honor our fellow submariners," Davis said.
The Navy wouldn't do anything with the ship even if it conclusively determined it was the Lagarto, considering the sea to be a proper final resting place for "our people who are killed in action," he said.
The wreckage site over 100 miles off the eastern coast of Thailand is also likely to go undisturbed.
U.S. laws and international agreements already protect sunken U.S. warships from looters or others who would disturb the site, Davis said.
Since Kenney was just a toddler when her father went to war, she has no conscious memories of their life in LaGrange, Ill. But she said news of the Navy's dive "was the most important piece" of a puzzle about her father that she's been trying to put together for six decades.
The children of the Lagarto sailors feel closer to their fathers now more than ever, she said.
"We feel like we've found our fathers," Kenney said.
The submarine that William T. Mabin was in disappeared while he and his crewmates were on a mission to attack a Japanese convoy in the last months of World War II.
Now, the Navy says a wreck found at the bottom of the Gulf of Thailand appears to be the sub, the USS Lagarto.
"I have never in my life, unequivocally, felt such a high," said Kenney, who was 2 years old when her father and the submarine did not return from their mission in May 1945.
"We can just feel a sense of relief and a sense of peace in knowing what happened and where they are," said Kenney, of Lake LeeLanau, Mich.
Navy divers on Friday completed a six-day survey of the wreckage site. They took photos and video of the 311-foot, 9-inch submarine for further analysis by naval archeologists.
The divers found twin 5-inch gun mounts on the forward and rear parts of the ship - a feature believed to be unique to the Lagarto.
They also saw the word "Manitowoc" displayed on the submarine's propeller, providing a connection to the Manitowoc, Wis., shipyard that built the Lagarto in the 1940s.
Eighty-six sailors died when the Lagarto sank in May 1945. The Japanese minelayer Hatsutaka reported dropping depth charges and sinking a U.S. sub in the area, though it was never known what ship it destroyed.
The Navy sent its divers to examine the ship to provide the sailors' families with some answers after a British professional shipwreck diver last year found what looked like the Lagarto, said Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Davis, a spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Fleet Submarine Force.
"It was important to bring a sense of closure to these families and it was important to do it in a way that would honor our fellow submariners," Davis said.
The Navy wouldn't do anything with the ship even if it conclusively determined it was the Lagarto, considering the sea to be a proper final resting place for "our people who are killed in action," he said.
The wreckage site over 100 miles off the eastern coast of Thailand is also likely to go undisturbed.
U.S. laws and international agreements already protect sunken U.S. warships from looters or others who would disturb the site, Davis said.
Since Kenney was just a toddler when her father went to war, she has no conscious memories of their life in LaGrange, Ill. But she said news of the Navy's dive "was the most important piece" of a puzzle about her father that she's been trying to put together for six decades.
The children of the Lagarto sailors feel closer to their fathers now more than ever, she said.
"We feel like we've found our fathers," Kenney said.
Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:08 pm
Good to hear.
How deep is it?
How deep is it?
Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:15 pm
systemofadown1162 wrote:Good to hear.
How deep is it?
225 feet Soad, we discussed it last July for a bit. Type Lagarto into search.
There are links to the divers who discovered her. The news today is regarding
the Navy's survey and confirmation of ID for Lagarto. I kept up with the
divers site for awhile, waiting for the photos that never came. Need to check
again with this new news. Also, there was a P-38 near by.
Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:16 am
Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:12 am
Thanks Airnutz.
And to answer your signature, nothing would happen.
And to answer your signature, nothing would happen.
Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:32 pm
I disagree.systemofadown1162 wrote:And to answer your signature, nothing would happen.
Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:58 pm
Ok BDK whats your scientific answer?
Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:17 pm
I know both Airnutz and I served in the submarine force. I think I posted this in the last thread, but, leave them alone. As far as I'm concerned, they are "Still on Patrol".
I know that fly's in the face of what I think about underwater aircraft. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled in my mind, but, there are 80 or so submarine sailors still in that boat. Just leave them be.
I'll remember them on the birthday.
I know that fly's in the face of what I think about underwater aircraft. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled in my mind, but, there are 80 or so submarine sailors still in that boat. Just leave them be.
I'll remember them on the birthday.
Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:20 pm
Yeah, that's a lot of guys. Let them rest in peace..........
Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:01 pm
Uh OP whatch talking about? 
Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:21 pm
Leave it there
Normally I would preffer to bring the remains home but there is no need in this case and no need to disturb them - leave it be
As a principle though I am against any effort to not bring troops home. if it is good enough for the Governments of the world to put people in harms way the least that can be done is to recover and identify the remains and return them to their loved ones.
No excuse should ever be accepted for leaving the fallen behind and it is often cheaper for Governments to cop out and leave them than do the right thing.
Regards
John P
Normally I would preffer to bring the remains home but there is no need in this case and no need to disturb them - leave it be
As a principle though I am against any effort to not bring troops home. if it is good enough for the Governments of the world to put people in harms way the least that can be done is to recover and identify the remains and return them to their loved ones.
No excuse should ever be accepted for leaving the fallen behind and it is often cheaper for Governments to cop out and leave them than do the right thing.
Regards
John P
Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:43 pm
I'll say leave it alone, they are buried at sea. I would like to see a plaque set there as a memorial and have National Geographic film it as a tribute.
Tim
Tim
Lagarto
Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:26 pm
Yes, let them rest where they are. There are several things which hinder
the SAFE recovery of the 86 men who went down with SS-371. She has a
large hull breach, IIRC transiting the Fwd Torpedo Room and the Forward Battery
compartment. A lotta rotting dangerous stuff in there which could get
people killed. If it was a question of mere price..I'd say bring the lads home, but
this is not the case. I wouldn't want my Navy brothers risking themselves
and their dependants futures on returning my mortal remains. Due to the
breach, not all can be recovered anyway. We know where they're at..and
more importantly..the families do too, and have expressed content with that
fact. We will honor them where they lay. Rest in Peace Gentlemen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not making light of the subject, but there were more than a few letters home
urging their loved ones not to worry in case "something" happened....
"I have a 6 million dollar coffin with friends"
That's all I have to say....
www.thaiwreckdiver.com/lagarto.htm
the SAFE recovery of the 86 men who went down with SS-371. She has a
large hull breach, IIRC transiting the Fwd Torpedo Room and the Forward Battery
compartment. A lotta rotting dangerous stuff in there which could get
people killed. If it was a question of mere price..I'd say bring the lads home, but
this is not the case. I wouldn't want my Navy brothers risking themselves
and their dependants futures on returning my mortal remains. Due to the
breach, not all can be recovered anyway. We know where they're at..and
more importantly..the families do too, and have expressed content with that
fact. We will honor them where they lay. Rest in Peace Gentlemen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not making light of the subject, but there were more than a few letters home
urging their loved ones not to worry in case "something" happened....
"I have a 6 million dollar coffin with friends"
That's all I have to say....
www.thaiwreckdiver.com/lagarto.htm
Last edited by airnutz on Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:38 am
systemofadown1162 wrote:Uh OP whatch talking about?
I did 8 years on fast attacks in the 80's. I would tell you about it but it is easier if you read a book about it. I wasn't a good sailor. I worked, but I was pretty much "Reel's and Meal's" when I could get it. Being an SK make's that easier, I'm all about easy.
I was present for bad guy stuff that would make the ole circle pucker closed for a week. I know, because mine did. Thats nothing compared to what the Lagarto guys experienced.
Regardless how much of a total slacker I am, There is a connection from Holland to me. It probably happened somewhere between the IO or the MED. We all did it, We all Volunteered for it.
That is probably the only thing I am connected to, or feel even slightly responsible for. I've heard "Conn Sonar, Weapon in the water." I got to walk away from it, those guys didn't.
I am the last guy anyone would want to protect their memory, and that is the last thing I would want to do. If it's me, f**k it, it's me. Leave those guys alone.
It is the least I can do or say for those guys, or for all of my friends who are in or have just retired.
697
578
725
674
660
Fast Attack
NBF (this ones for airnutz)
Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:51 am
I also read the article on MSNBC after getting in the office this morning. If anyone's ever in the Manintowoc, WI area I encourage them to stop by the Wisconsin Maritime Museum which has the restored USS Cobia. Although the Cobia was not made in Manitowoc, it's nearly identical to the Lagarto which was. The experience is well worth the trip!
John
John
Last edited by Former Member on Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.