Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu May 15, 2025 4:33 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:54 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 1525
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Saw this posted on the WIX FB group - I'm not sure which BuNo this is at the moment, looking for that info. Hope the pilot will be ok.

https://www.regiotrends.de/de/polizeibe ... 82599.html

Attachment:
fm2_060122_overturn-Germany.jpg



Translation:

At around 12:15 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon, 01.06.22, the police were informed that a motorized aircraft had crashed near the local road between Schlatt and Bremgarten. The pilot probably attempted an emergency landing, but failed. He was seriously injured and had to be rescued by the fire department.

The injured person was transported to the hospital by rescue helicopter. The reasons for the accident are not yet clear and are still part of the investigation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 2:53 pm
Posts: 299
Location: UK
I guess that will be N909WJ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:13 pm
Posts: 429
News item about the move to Germany here: https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/w ... or-germany (Scramble.nl, May 2021)
This airframe: http://www.warbirdregistry.org/f4fregis ... 46867.html although the article indicates that it may also be BuNo 16203.

_________________
A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:53 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:29 pm
Posts: 4526
Location: Dallas, TX
Gear still up? Grass? Little damage to the prop, so maybe an engine failure of some sort?
That doesn't look good.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:34 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:38 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
The pics suggest a couple of possibilities. 1) the engine quit shortly after rotation and the pilot didn't have time to lower the gear back down. Or 2) total engine loss and he tried to glide to a suitable landing area and didn't want to add the drag of the gear and flaps. The prop blades are barely bent and suggest zero thrust and maybe even zero rotation. Whatever happened, he did a nice job of not stall/spinning and hopefully he and the airplane will fly another day.


Last edited by marine air on Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:13 pm
Posts: 429
If the gear system is still 'original' it takes some hard manual labour to get it cycled. 43 turns of the hand crank according to the notes with this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0OSLUaqIzg

_________________
A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 870
Location: Midland, Texas
The two FM-2 Wildcats I flew each needed 29 turns of the hand crank to raise or lower the gear. I always counted the number of turns for gear down just to be sure. Just FYI.

Randy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:37 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 1672
Doesn't look that bad.

It's far more expensive -- maybe prohibitive -- if the gear is ripped off the spar or airframe. Everything twists.

Sheet-metal is cheap. And the engine obviously needed a rebuild anyway.

Glad to hear the people are OK.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:13 pm
Posts: 429
Randy Wilson wrote:
The two FM-2 Wildcats I flew each needed 29 turns of the hand crank to raise or lower the gear.

Thanks, I stand corrected 8)

_________________
A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:13 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 1196
Randy Wilson wrote:
The two FM-2 Wildcats I flew each needed 29 turns of the hand crank to raise or lower the gear. I always counted the number of turns for gear down just to be sure. Just FYI.

Randy


Randy, curious do you get a tactile feel when you are done cranking in either direction, like does the crank stop? do you get a thunk?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:39 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:48 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: West Valley, Silicon Valley
Randy Wilson wrote:
The two FM-2 Wildcats I flew each needed 29 turns of the hand crank to raise or lower the gear. I always counted the number of turns for gear down just to be sure. Just FYI.

Randy

I remember Gerald Martin once said in Air Classics that he liked to do a roll after take-off to use gravity while cranking the landing gear up.

pop2

_________________
remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 870
Location: Midland, Texas
Archer, you are welcome. To retract the gear, you just need to start cranking. There is an over-center down lock, plus the gear and chains. You get some feedback as the gear passes about halfway up as it gets into the prop's blast, which tends to make the cranking a bit harder. It is also best to keep the airspeed below 100 knots while raising the gear to avoid more air load.

The crank is connected to two toothed gears on the engine side of the firewall bulkhead and the crank is connected by what look like motorcycle drive chains. There is a ratchet which prevents the handle from unwinding while you are raising the gear. To lower the gear, you flip a small lever next to the crank to disengage the up-ratchet lock. The handle is then cranked up just a bit to release the ratchet. At this point the gear could free fall down if you don't hold onto the crank and control the lowering. I know at least one incident on another FM-2 when the pilot let the gear free fall a few times and it ended up damaging the teeth of the gears and stretching the chain. As I remember, one gear failed to lock and may have partially collapsed. I was not a witness, so this is based on what I was told.

It has been a number of years since I flew an FM-2 but as I remember there was no real indicator of the gear position, other than the position of the crank handle. That was why I counted the turns, especially when lowering the gear. If it stopped before 29 turns down, it could be a problem. Fortunately, I never encountered that.

It would not surprise me if Gerald may have rolled it to crank the gear "down" but this would typically only be "legal" at an air show ;-). Many times I flew the Wildcat as the "good guy" in the Tora act, launching directly underneath the Zeros and Vals and having at least one Kate coming the opposite direction of my take off. He would be at maybe 75 feet high on the left side of my runway so I had to pull the power back and not climb much higher than that while I cranked up the gear. Once out from under the Tora "furball" I quickly climbed up to engage a Zero and shoot him down a few times. At smaller shows with fewer Tora birds, I would often join the "Zero circle" which was interesting.

I hope this helps you understand the practical operation of the gear. If not, ask away. Fly safe.

Randy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:36 am
Posts: 401
Location: 5nm W of Biggin Hill
Randy Wilson wrote:
To lower the gear, you flip a small lever next to the crank to disengage the up-ratchet lock. The handle is then cranked up just a bit to release the ratchet. At this point the gear could free fall down if you don't hold onto the crank and control the lowering.

Randy


I vaguely recall an article by Stephen Grey about flying his Wildcat, in which he mentioned another pilot had landed with a knuckle or two broken after his hand slipped off the gear crank as he lowered it and it free fell, the handle delivering a smart blow to his hand in the process.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 870
Location: Midland, Texas
Yes, I was discussing that issue with a veteran WWII Wildcat pilot and his advice was to use your right leg to arrest the handle, as it was harder to injure badly that the hand. If you lose your grip on the crank during lowering, it will strike the back of your hand and can leave a bad bruise or worse. Just FYI.

Randy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:36 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:48 pm
Posts: 1925
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Randy Wilson wrote:
The crank is connected to two toothed gears on the engine side of the firewall bulkhead and the crank is connected by what look like motorcycle drive chains. There is a ratchet which prevents the handle from unwinding while you are raising the gear. To lower the gear, you flip a small lever next to the crank to disengage the up-ratchet lock. The handle is then cranked up just a bit to release the ratchet. At this point the gear could free fall down if you don't hold onto the crank and control the lowering.

F4F-4 right side cockpit view:
Image
(Source: Cradle of Aviation Museum via New York Heritage Digital Collections)

From the Pilot's Handbook of Flight Operating Instructions Navy Model FM-2 Airplane:
Image
(Source: Photobucket via Warbird Information Exchange)

_________________
Tri-State Warbird Museum Collections Manager & Museum Attendant

Warbird Philosophy Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], raconnel and 303 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group