Warbird Information Exchange

Hi WIX Gang,

I want to get a good flight suit for my aerobatic, and soon to be warbird flying.

To all the warbird pilots out there, can you suggest any companies that produce really good flight suits?

There are several brands online, but I was hoping I could get some input from people that wear them regularly.

Thoughts?

Any brands to look into? Any to avoid?

Cheers,

David McIntosh
Vancouver, BC

Nomex (Fire Resistant) or non-Nomex?
Most of the guys I know wear military gear.

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I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

You opened a real can of worms. Ask 10 people - get 20 answers.

A simple, effective answer is to use a US military CWU-27/P flightsuit; they are made by many contractors. Green and tan are common colors. A genuine piece will be made of a nomex or aramid fire resistant fabric. You'll have lots of pockets so as not lose stuff.

As far as getting one, they are available new online, although they are often pricey and it is not always clear if those are truly issue items. Phrases like "meets the mil-spec" or "military style" or "imported" give me pause.

I would consider purchasing a used item either from ebay or a surplus store/fly-mart, assuming you can inspect it first. Wear and washing are the enemies of nomex; a well-worn garment won't have near the protection. Used but nearly new or "new without tags" would be the best compromise. You can tell this by feel (very soft fabric is not a good sign), by look (fading), and also by holding the back panel up to a light (older suits become noticeably thinner). Can be hard to do on ebay, but good photos do tell a lot. If you learn a little about the contract numbers printed on the neck tag, you can guess what year the suit was made; the newest ones will use the latest blend of nomex/aramid.

Sizing can be tough. Even if you don't by one from a surplus store, it would be ideal to go try one on. If you are going to wear clothes under the suit - leave room for that.

Dirt and oil are also not good for nomex. I would not use a suit you pilot in to perform maintenance, etc. If you want to purchase a couple extras that can be used for that function, then do so.

People will argue that flight suits are strictly about aesthetics/ego. The truth is, nomex is not fireproof, nor heat-proof. A pair of heavy blue jeans (cotton only) might provide more protection from abrasion and heat in an incident. Where they shine is that the pockets are very handy and nomex doesn't melt like a polyester golf shirt or that shiny nylon 50's style flight jacket. Although I am not a fan of flightsuits worn over street clothes, that may be the best protection strategy as long as the street clothes are all cotton, including your underwear & socks.

Although it is tangent to your question, I would consider a good helmet, nomex gloves, and possibly some quality flight boots as more essential than the flightsuit itself, but that's another story.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Gibson and Barnes is the standard, of course. We wear nomex, although it's not a pleasant fabric. Get the lightest-weight you can.

They will customize it for you, for an extra charge. You can change pocket locations and types etc. You might want to get the shoulder-pocket expanded for whatever phone you have -- my iPhone7 in its case won't fit. Get a name patch made up with the organization -- it legitimizes you when you're walking around foreign ramps.

My preference is Gibson and Barnes CWU-27/P. I get the version with the heaviest weight nomex (they're for protection, not comfort). They're pricey, but I wouldn't try to be cheap with respect to personal protective gear. I get them new from the manufacturer, so you know you are getting the specs for which you pay. I prefer the tan color as it is closest to what was being worn by pilots in WWII... gotta look the part right? Albeit tan shows oil and grime a bit more than the OD. I try to wear a flight suit in every warbird I fly from L-5 to P-63. I've also started wearing nomex long underwear, nomex socks, and nomex/leather drag racing boots when flying the fighters. There was a great (scary) article in EAA Warbirds (IIRC) about a year or so ago about the pilot of the T-28 that went down up at Anoka a couple years ago. Read it. It will scare you into wearing PPG every time you fly. As was mentioned above, almost even more critical is what you wear under your flight suit. Avoid synthetics at all cost. Wear nomex or cotton clothes underneath. Avoid shorts under your flight suit. Avoid short sleeves under your flight suit. Avoid ankle socks. Avoid tennis shoes. Obviously, a flight suit over a t-shirt and shorts is better than nothing, but I try to go overboard in the slim chance of an in flight/post impact fire. I also echo to get a size (or two) larger than what "fits" you to give you plenty of room for clothes underneath, items in your pockets, etc. Please do not get the Blue Angels' standard Extra-Medium size. Nomex degrades with washing, so my M.O. is to wear mine until my wife makes a comment about my "fragrance," and then wash. In addition to a flight suit, get a good helmet. They're not just for comms, impact protection, or to look cool. They'll save your noggin from fire as well. I have a good friend whose helmet saved him from a post-impact fire. Once again, a used nomex suit is better than nothing, and external factors like outside temperature, etc. need to be taken into account when deciding what to wear, so do what best fits your budget/risk profile. However, Flying warbirds/acro is serious, so why not give yourself the biggest leg-up you can?

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Taylor Stevenson

Some of the latest tech nomex under garments used in pro-motorsport is very comfortable now, and very technical, and great for sweat wicking as well, and its easier to wash this than a flight suit.....not hugely expensive either.
I used to have about 3/4 sets of nomex shirts/tee-shirts/long johns/socks etc for wearing under my race suit, and the race suit never really got that fragrant, and only needed a pro-clean once ever couple of years.

Nomex is a fabric treatment that will eventually wear out after so many washings/cleanings. It is fire RESISTANT which means it will not support combustion, it will burn but not stay burning. What it does is gives you a few precious seconds of time to get away from a fire.

"Nomex is a fabric treatment that will eventually wear out after so many washings/cleanings."

This statement is incorrect!!

You have to be careful washing items to make sure no residues are left that will hinder it's performance, such as fabric softeners, grease, oils, etc.

what Taylor said and don't forget gloves.

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Wow - pretty sobering read.

https://midwestflyer.com/?p=12924

Tom P.

Hey Gang,

Thanks for all the responses. I appreciated hearing from you all about the different considerations I ought to think about when looking for the right thing.

I had not considered the importance of having the "correct" layers underneath the flight suit. It looks like you've made me add even more to my Christmas List. LOL

I definitely feel that even though I have a very limited budget (I'm an out of work airline pilot, teaching tailwheel now), I'm going to buy a higher quality flight suit, and take into consideration everything you've all mentioned. Gibson and Barnes looks like the ticket.

Thank you also, for the article about in-flight and post flight fires. Sobering indeed.

Cheers all,

David McIntosh
Vancouver, BC

AG pilot is correct about the nomex.Maybe what B29flteng is thinking about are the old cotton K2B flight suits that had some kind of flame retardant stuff applied to them.

The Thorogood "Commando Deuce" boots that G&B sell are great for flying as well. Been wearing them for almost 15 years. One of the few boots on the market that have composite toe and yet soft enough soles to not damage any thin metal or cause problems if you choose to fly your non-warbird (or warbird with carpet floors) with them. Re-read the "bloodborne pathogen compliant" as oil, water, and fuel resistant, more important for a warbird pilot.

Nomex flght suit
Leather boots
Nomex/leather flight gloves
Cotton socks
Cotton underwear
Cotton t-shirt

Cotton could be replaced by nomex items.

NEVER EVER wear nylon, rayon etc, there is an incident report that was sent out to fighter units for us to relay to our pilots during Life Support Equipment Training. There was a pilot wearing Nike biker shorts under his flight suit, versus underwear. There was a cockpit fire and the material melted to his body, which included a certain sensitive body part.

Inspect your flight uniform items regularly, if there is areas starting to thin, if seams are fraying (This is a judgment area, as some can be repaired), if holes are forming then replace the flight suit. Sure it can be expensive, but what price do you put on your life.

While I don't know what the rules in the Air Force now, there was a time when after X amount of repairs or if the bad seam was X amount inches long the flight suit was condemned. Also remember that if you repair a flight suit use nomex thread. A lot of people use a synthetic thread such as polyester thread and it melts quickly allowing the flame a path to your body.

I spent 23 years in the Air Force in the Aircrew Life Support career field. It was our job to maintain flight equipment and train the aircrew on it. This included what was allowed and proper......

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Mike in Florida
TSgt USAF Retired
Jan 86 - Sept 08
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life Is Our Business"
(122X0, 1T1X1, 1P0X1)
NRA Life Member

I bought a Gibson and Barnes CWU-27/P. However I got the orange color.

I would have much rather get tan green or especially blue, BUT....I used to fly to Syracuse NY a lot to see family. Western Massachusetts is almost all woods. The thought of a forced landing in the woods (or anywhere, really) caused me to get orange so that I can be seen.

Orange would be especially handy during deer hunting season.

The virus has prevented me from those flights but I hope to be able to resume them.

I bought Nomex socks.

Going to have to do something about footwear as sneakers these days are almost all synthetic. I've looked at racing boots but I don't think I want soft soles.

As for gloves, I have several pair of the standard military Nomex variety. They work ok. Can't swipe an iPad (or any other swiping screen) with them.

But I was having an email conversation with Elliot Sequin because I noticed he doesn't wear mil Nomex gloves but something entirely different. Turns out they are Tig welder gloves which, he claims, give better fire/heat protection.

So I got a pair of those and tried them out on my last flight. Thicker than the mil spec Nomex gloves but not so thick you can't push a button or flip a switch. Still can't swipe an iPad.

Bird strike stories caused me to always wear goggles.

Head injury stories caused me to always wear a helmet.

I don't have a helmet for a pax so if I have a pax I'll wear the headset but bring goggles for us both.