B-17 Memphis Belle question

[whistlingdeath77]

I was wondering how much of the real Memphis Belle is original to seeing combat? I’m guessing the engines, props, guns, tires, ailerons, rudder, anything inside etc etc has been long replaced multiple times during state side training. How much aluminum has been replaced?

[mustangdriver]

I’d argue it is most likely the most all original B-17 in existence along with Swoose. Never converted or anything. Always a bomber configuration. Original turrets. Nearly all of the metal is really her. There was some work on one of the bomb doors. The airplane had replacement tail, control surfaces, engines all while still in combat. She even has her original panel back. I’d argue it’s pretty rare.

[Dan Jones]

I’d argue it is most likely the most all original B-17 in existence along with Swoose. Never converted or anything. Always a bomber configuration. Original turrets. Nearly all of the metal is really her. There was some work on one of the bomb doors. The airplane had replacement tail, control surfaces, engines all while still in combat. She even has her original panel back. I’d argue it’s pretty rare.

I agree. She was never a sprayer or a firebomber, and not having been rebuilt to fly there's probably a pretty fair bit of her that's original, wartime, "Belle".

[whistlingdeath77]

So all of the engines and props have seen combat? It never had an engine replaced during training state side? I also thought that the interior was gutted over the years. I’m sure all the plexiglass has been replaced over time no?

[mustangdriver]

The engines on the Belle are zero time completely fresh engines. The B-17 engines were made by Wright as well as Studebaker. As a tribute to Joe Giambrone, the Belles crew chief they sourced a fresh set of the engines Morgan preferred (I think it was the wrights). Joe would always try to have the one Morgan liked on the Belle. The Belle throughout its career went through many engine changes. The prop blades are the ones the Belle was parked with I think. Not sure of their history. When you are looking at the Belle she is pretty much all the Belle. Yes she had items stripped out of her. Many of them have been returned. Lots of new old stock installed as well. And some items just flat out had to be made.

[whistlingdeath77]

What’s more wartime complete......the Belle or Enola gay?

[martin_sam_2000]

What’s more wartime complete......the Belle or Enola gay?

Interesting question. I have read the Enola Gay was also picked apart for years before going in storage. I would assume they are both probably around the same. Main structures are original, interior fittings and smaler parts are replacement.

The main thing woild be the airframe is original. No rebuild, no replacement.

Sean

[bomberfan]

I’d argue it is most likely the most all original B-17 in existence along with Swoose. Never converted or anything.

Swoose did get converted to a V.I.P. transport, losing much of her original combat equipment in the process. But seeing that it was done while in military service, do we still consider it still all original? Same with the replacement wings and tail. Since it was does during her service years, do we call them original? I'm not trying to sound like I'm arguing, I'm just curious what people think of things like these.

And I'd also put Swamp Ghost up there as possibly the most all original airframes out there. Poor condition, yes, but mostly still all there.

[Dan K]

What’s more wartime complete......the Belle or Enola gay?

Interesting question. I have read the Enola Gay was also picked apart for years before going in storage. I would assume they are both probably around the same. Main structures are original, interior fittings and smaler parts are replacement.

The main thing woild be the airframe is original. No rebuild, no replacement.

Sean

FWIW...from October 1988:


...Although the Enola Gay has been moved four times since it was placed in storage on Aug. 30, 1946, at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., Mr. Horigan estimates that his shop has 99 percent of the original parts. A few small pieces, including an ashtray and a clock, were lost to souvenier hunters as the plane shuttled from Arizona to Illinois to Texas to Maryland, where it was disassembled for easier storage at Andrews Air Force Base in 1960. And the special bomb rack and related equipment added to accommodate the atomic bomb, originally highly classified, were missing.

Mr. Horigan said the Air Force told him the atomic equipment was removed and destroyed long ago. It has been recreated from photographs, or replaced with identical ground test equipment that survived down the years.



https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/23/us/r ... story.html

[lucky52]

Wasn't most of the cockpit of "Memphis Belle" stripped and or stolen while on outside display or am I thinking of another B-17?

[whistlingdeath77]

Wasn't most of the cockpit of "Memphis Belle" stripped and or stolen while on outside display or am I thinking of another B-17?

That’s what I thought as well

[Malo 1]

Maybe your thinking of "Prestons Pride" in Tulare,Ca. they gutted her.

[mustangdriver]

There were things picked out of the Belle I it was by no means picked clean. And many parts were returned to the plane from the folks who took them with notes apologizing for their actions. The plane has the original control panel, original yokes. We had a great talk from Harry Friedman on the subject in our museum. As far as the B-29, Taigh is probably the go to guy on that aircraft.

[Invader26]

My late father-in-law SSGt Ed Potocki was a flight engineer training on her when she was a trainer with 815th BS 483rd BG prior to them obtaining B-17G's and heading to Italy with 15th AF. His comment to me was that they never liked the Studebaker engines and in his words "they were junk compared to Wright motors"....

[Chris Brame]

Maybe your thinking of "Preston's Pride" in Tulare, Ca. they gutted her.

Or Lacey Lady in Oregon - it was open for visitors early on and got picked over pretty well too.