Warbird Information Exchange

I can only surmise that it was deemed worthy to be fished out owing to the fact that it is a Grumman built airframe. A rare bird indeed.

That, and the fact it was the first of the many to be found and recovered from the lake:



I'm a bit surprised that, with or without my photos, Air Classics never did a story on this recovery.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

There are lots of TBM in existence. There are almost no surviving early TBF’s they were built by Grumman before the type was assigned to General Motors. This one may be a combat veteran, as well.
At the time it was retrieved while there was still a birdcage Corsair, a Vindicator, and many Dauntlesses
Wildcats and SNJ’s to choose from.

There are lots of TBM in existence. There are almost no surviving early TBF’s they were built by Grumman before the type was assigned to General Motors. This one may be a combat veteran, as well.
At the time it was retrieved there was still a birdcage Corsair, a Vindicator, and many Dauntlesses ,
Wildcats and SNJ’s to choose from. At this time, the SNJ’s are the only type not economically viable to retrieve.

I asked about that on one of the Lake Michigan threads and was told (by Taras IIRC) that none of the TBF/TBMs saw combat - trying to find the thread now.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

(Deleted)

Dear Steve ... you asked about the picture of the B-17E in the January 2020 issue of Air Classics. I am the original author of the piece. I originally had it published in the November 1987 issue of Airpower Magazine. It was republished by Air Classics without my permission or any payment to me, which seemed pretty tacky to me.

To answer your question, the B-17E in the picture was NOT one of the 35 B-17s in the Philippines when war started as they were all B-17Cs and Ds. In fact, given the Sperry ball turret, this was a later B-17E and I'd guess the picture was taken in Australia or the South Pacific later in the war.

If you want to contact me at rrsblsATmsn.com I'd be glad to give you further information.

Rick the Librarian
(Richard Slater)

The belly sighting blister and small widows adjacent indicates it was originally fitted with the remote-sighted Sperry turret, and later fitted with the Sperry ball turret. Research indicates that all B-17Es were fitted to have either turret installed as the ball turret was not ready when the first B-17Es were built.

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Scott Thompson
Aero Vintage Books
http://www.aerovintage.com
WIX Subscriber Since July 2017

I should correct what I wrote...the airplanes with the remote turrets were built to accept the ball turret...not vice-versa.

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Scott Thompson
Aero Vintage Books
http://www.aerovintage.com
WIX Subscriber Since July 2017

Thanks Rick. While I can only guess at the tail number, that photo was taken at Townsville and the B-17E is almost certainly from the 435th Bomb Squadron, 19th Bomb Group.

I’m still waiting for Air Classics to pay me for the last article I wrote for them, published in 1972.

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www.B17BlackJack.com

You've probably seen this, but if not it may help with some of the tail numbers?
https://www.ozatwar.com/usaaf/435th.htm

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45-47=-2

Joe:

With all due respect, I must tell you that your statement of "Volunteering generally does not equal skin in the game" made me incandescent with rage. For background: I have, at my own considerable expense, since 1997 or so supported the CAF and the BAHF, as well as other groups. I do own a classic airplane, a 1941 Piper J-5A, that I put back together. I have gone to uncounted airshows, usually paying my own way, to support the planes I have helped to restore and keep airworthy. I earned my A&P the hard way, by taking almost 10 years to attain the 30 months of OJT to take the tests.

I made, along with a few other National Capitol Squadron CAF members, a sizable donation towards the down payment on our BT-13, N56360. I also co-signed the loan and there were many months when we aircraft sponsors made the payments out of pocket until we got the plane in good shape to earn her own way.

I say all this, not out of ego, but to inform you, Joe, in your lofty perch, that just because someone doesn't own a P-51, Corsair, etc, doesn't equate to them being nobodies. FYI, almost all of Collings, CAF, and most other outfits pilots AND mechanics are mere *volunteers*.

While I do agree about the *Anoraks* who nitpick colours etc based on building of Airfix models, I have to tell you that your comment, and the attitude it evinces, is smug, supercilious, and arrogant in the extreme. There's a helluva lot of folks who spend HUGE dollars "volunteering" every year just because they love these airplanes. If you have any self-awareness at all, I hope you will realise how utterly tone-deaf that comment was. I do expect a response.

Best
Jase

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Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts

Jase,

I have no idea why you are incandescent with rage, but if that works for you great, continue to be the light of your world.

If you bought a BT and you are an owner of a plane, you have substantial skin in the game and are as I stated not quite the big man behind the keyboard....

I certainly don't make the rules, and volunteered for years myself, and still do occasionally. That said I noticed everything changes when you BUY SOMETHING. You have a better ability to understand. You deal with the FEDs, the Plane, the Spare Parts, the Fuel Bills, searching for spares, Hangar, Tie Down, Airport management questioning you about how long you want to store your spares that you just drove across the country in three days so darn overloaded and overweight so you had to avoid weigh stations for 14 states. I have no idea what you think you read, or where I said you were a nobody if you didn't own a P-51 or some other nonsense. What I did say was that the owners make the decisions. If you want to help fine. Be a part, do your thing. Here is the passage you had trouble comprehending.

"Some of the big men (and women) now beginning the collection and purchasing of these planes want them to go the way of vintage cars like 288 GTO’s, 911 RSR’s and Duesenbergs that mortals have to pay $200.00 for a ticket to get on the field (required to be wearing a jacket and slacks) to see them. Been to Pebble or do you have VIP tickets at the Quail? Is that where we want to go? Many owners would love that because of the crap that has been shoveled their way by the well meaning big man behind the keyboard without any thought or skin in the game. (Volunteer work does not generally equal skin)."

Read the post. If you disagree with me I'm happy to talk with you on the phone. And if you buy in or volunteer, AGAIN, that's not the same as being the big man behind the keyboard throwing stones at people who bleed for this. I'm thrilled you bleed too, everybody should. The future is not about the volunteers or the who is sacrificing more, it is about future ACCESS for everyone. If you knew how many owners and now groups prohibit photos and access and choose to not share these planes because of the internet chat phenomenon you may change your tune. Read my post again a few times slow, its not about what you have decided. This is about the fact that most owners aren't here anymore.

Your path isn't any different than mine probably. I worked my way up through sorting hardware, volunteering, bending tubing, painting parts and learning to use epoxy, bucking rivets, changing carburetors and a host of other things for two or three years. I then got my first real paying job working on a firefighting bird, and later flying it on the missions. That was 20 years ago and I'm still here.

JASE I will PM you my number and you can yell at me some more if you are still pissed. Don't worry about the time, my phone is always on.

The reason I was posting here was because Air Classic IS important to me. It is a magazine for those that care about this stuff and champions the whole width of this stuff. If you disagree with me, that's fine, but Air Classics and Warbirds are the last monthly magazines produced in this country that publish on this stuff. The last ones. I just don't think we should lose them.

You will get paid about the same time I get the subscription I paid for and never received.

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook

Ironic!!!!

There's always two sides to every story. One side has expressed their accusations o-plenty in this thread. The other side "crickets"!!! .... The other side has no problem asking for a financial handout, but has no desire to defend itself?

Usually in the real world if you are asking publicly (especially on an internet forum) for financial assistance and people have questions, concerns or accusations?, it's seems only respectful to those concerned, and yourself, to address those concerns before the wallet comes out. What's the other side have to say? Anything?

Also!!

I wouldn't be so convinced that warbird owners, warbird collectors and warbird organizations refrain from visiting this site. I frequently and continually get PM's from quite a few of the "players and owners" in the warbird community asking for a few threads of 'this' or 'that'. I always state that I'd be happy to try at least. Warbird royalty are around here plenty. They may just not have anything to say. It happens.

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Zero Surprise!!...