Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:05 am
1. Stolen Valor
User names with military ranks will not be allowed UNLESS you can show that you are current or ex-Military. This rule has been under consideration for years and I think the current rise in stolen valor incidents in the world have warranted this change. This rule will be retroactively applied so contact me through PM to let me know what you would like your username to be changed to or to let me know that you are active-duty or retired military.
2. Usernames vs. real names
I want to get away from usernames, as some of you may or may not have noticed I have changed my own. I am not making this rule mandatory (YET) as I understand the privacy concerns involved. However, if you would would like to change from your current username to your real name let me know through PM. I can change your username to your real name and add your old username as a title under your real name.
I want to do this to help with accountability and help prevent trolling.
Let me know your opinions on these new rules.
User names with military ranks will not be allowed UNLESS you can show that you are current or ex-Military. This rule has been under consideration for years and I think the current rise in stolen valor incidents in the world have warranted this change. This rule will be retroactively applied so contact me through PM to let me know what you would like your username to be changed to or to let me know that you are active-duty or retired military.
2. Usernames vs. real names
I want to get away from usernames, as some of you may or may not have noticed I have changed my own. I am not making this rule mandatory (YET) as I understand the privacy concerns involved. However, if you would would like to change from your current username to your real name let me know through PM. I can change your username to your real name and add your old username as a title under your real name.
I want to do this to help with accountability and help prevent trolling.
Let me know your opinions on these new rules.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:35 am
I agree with both of these. To many hide behind a username, or something that they are not.
I don't post very often, but I do look on here nearly everyday, sometimes several times each day.
You have my support Scott
I don't post very often, but I do look on here nearly everyday, sometimes several times each day.
You have my support Scott
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:08 pm
I support that...... 
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:16 pm
Any boards that use real names are inactive. And even then how will you know for sure someone is giving a real name?
Its just too dangerous these days to advertise yourself online, if you have said something that deranged people don't like
that could be very dangerous. A lot of people will not bother with this site anymore if that happens.
Its just too dangerous these days to advertise yourself online, if you have said something that deranged people don't like
that could be very dangerous. A lot of people will not bother with this site anymore if that happens.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:03 pm
I use a nom de plume for several reasons, mainly due to the nature of whom I work for. I don't mind using my real identity in direct email, or on a couple of boards where I do not discuss certain topics. There are number of members of this board and several other boards that know me in the outside world and all are aware of the caution I take and why I do. Once I retire, then I'l reevaluate this subject.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:10 pm
I'm in favor of that, seeing as my signature contains my name and other pertinent information.
The only hang up is folks in the CAF who use "Col." as a prefix. While Im not a CAF guy, I can see the tradition there and Im sure many wouldnt want to break with it.
Just a thought.
KK
The only hang up is folks in the CAF who use "Col." as a prefix. While Im not a CAF guy, I can see the tradition there and Im sure many wouldnt want to break with it.
Just a thought.
KK
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:25 pm
I support the Stolen Valor issue wholeheartedly. Go for it.
Regarding the "real names" issue, I completely disagree. That will not work unless you are willing to completely uproot and change your entire business model of how you operate WIX.
These are the issues:
1) Some people post on this forum due to the anonymity it provides. In my case, it is NOT so I can "troll" different threads and say things that I wouldn't say in real life. Maybe some people do that, but not me. If I see something or take issue with what somebody says, I have no issue "calling them out", just like I do in real life. So, the fact that I post here anonymously has absolutely nothing to do with "trolling". I am heavily involved in warbirds and work with several organizations/museums/individuals and personally know several of the "high profile" people that we often talk about here on this forum. Because of my involvement in those groups, it has provided me access to "inside" information.
Even with my anonymity, I am only able to post a very small portion of what I actually know. Because the warbird world is so small, the more details one posts, the easier it is to narrow down the different personalities involved, just based on what they post here. I have figured out the identities of several "anonymous" posters here on WIX, strictly due to their associations and the information they post online.
Without anonymity, I would not post anything at WIX and would go away and never participate again. Due to the sensitive nature of different issues, projects, potential conflicts, safety, FAA scrutinization, etc., I have to watch very carefully what I post here, even anonymously. I post what I can without giving away any proprietary information that would get myself or other people in trouble. A lot of times I will post very vague, non-specific information that gives a sense of what is going on, but won't compromise the trust these organizations/owners have given me.
I know for a fact, because I work with them, or they are my friends, that there are several very important people in the warbird world who have so-called "anonymous" accounts that are registered at WIX in other than their real name. They mostly lurk here and read the forum for information, but occasionally drop some real "information bombs" that are revealing. If this forum were to require a real name and no protected identities, these people, for sure, would leave and never participate at WIX again.
2) Having someone register and post under their real name is practically unenforceable, unless you are willing to take extreme measures that will drive off the vast majority of your participants. Currently, if you just decree that somebody has to use their real name, what prevents them from using an "alias" or a different name? You would have to require some kind of "identification verification". That would open up a whole can of worms and could subject you to legal liability. There would only be 3 ways for "identification verification" to work:
a) Provide proof such as identification of some type - driver's license, passport, business i.d., W-2, or some kind of record of employment, or government document with a name on it.
b) Require people to pay for the use of this site through a credit card and/or paypal, etc. You would have to require them to only register under the name that is used on these payment services.
c) To require you or one of the "Mods" to have met or know, in real life, the person who is registering under their name at WIX.
If you require "a" from above, are you willing to accept the legal liability that might potentially come if that said person had their identity stolen and claimed that WIX mishandled their personal information? Also, that would be a very intrusive requirement that I don't think most people would agree to.
If you require "b" from above, do you think you would have enough participation to not only fund the site, but also to generate enough participation for discussions to make this forum a worthwhile venture? Let's face it, our little niche of "warbirds" is very small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I don't think there is enough demand to justify that WIX hide behind a "paywall". No offense to WIX, and I love you guys - but I don't think there is enough outside interest to keep this forum going should it require payments to use.
If you require "c" from above, that will eliminate 99% of all willing participants. Unless somebody just happens to know one of you personally, the chances are very remote that this method of identification verification could work on a large, international geographic scale, considering the amount of forum members outside of the United States.
In addition to all of this, people are a lot like water - they will seek the path of least resistance. That means other avenues for information sharing. Whether that means other or not yet developed forums, facebook, reddit, 4chan, or some other avenue - people will abandon this like a "hot potato" if the perception is that WIX is too much of a pain to deal with. A prime example of what could happen is the "Flypast Forum". It was a highly successful, credible and fantastic warbird forum for many, many years. Once that forum fell apart - and it didn't even require "real names" or a paywall - it has all but been abandoned. I fear the same would happen here should you require real names for registration or payment services to utilize.
Take it for what it's worth, but this is my honest 2 cents worth.
Regarding the "real names" issue, I completely disagree. That will not work unless you are willing to completely uproot and change your entire business model of how you operate WIX.
These are the issues:
1) Some people post on this forum due to the anonymity it provides. In my case, it is NOT so I can "troll" different threads and say things that I wouldn't say in real life. Maybe some people do that, but not me. If I see something or take issue with what somebody says, I have no issue "calling them out", just like I do in real life. So, the fact that I post here anonymously has absolutely nothing to do with "trolling". I am heavily involved in warbirds and work with several organizations/museums/individuals and personally know several of the "high profile" people that we often talk about here on this forum. Because of my involvement in those groups, it has provided me access to "inside" information.
Even with my anonymity, I am only able to post a very small portion of what I actually know. Because the warbird world is so small, the more details one posts, the easier it is to narrow down the different personalities involved, just based on what they post here. I have figured out the identities of several "anonymous" posters here on WIX, strictly due to their associations and the information they post online.
Without anonymity, I would not post anything at WIX and would go away and never participate again. Due to the sensitive nature of different issues, projects, potential conflicts, safety, FAA scrutinization, etc., I have to watch very carefully what I post here, even anonymously. I post what I can without giving away any proprietary information that would get myself or other people in trouble. A lot of times I will post very vague, non-specific information that gives a sense of what is going on, but won't compromise the trust these organizations/owners have given me.
I know for a fact, because I work with them, or they are my friends, that there are several very important people in the warbird world who have so-called "anonymous" accounts that are registered at WIX in other than their real name. They mostly lurk here and read the forum for information, but occasionally drop some real "information bombs" that are revealing. If this forum were to require a real name and no protected identities, these people, for sure, would leave and never participate at WIX again.
2) Having someone register and post under their real name is practically unenforceable, unless you are willing to take extreme measures that will drive off the vast majority of your participants. Currently, if you just decree that somebody has to use their real name, what prevents them from using an "alias" or a different name? You would have to require some kind of "identification verification". That would open up a whole can of worms and could subject you to legal liability. There would only be 3 ways for "identification verification" to work:
a) Provide proof such as identification of some type - driver's license, passport, business i.d., W-2, or some kind of record of employment, or government document with a name on it.
b) Require people to pay for the use of this site through a credit card and/or paypal, etc. You would have to require them to only register under the name that is used on these payment services.
c) To require you or one of the "Mods" to have met or know, in real life, the person who is registering under their name at WIX.
If you require "a" from above, are you willing to accept the legal liability that might potentially come if that said person had their identity stolen and claimed that WIX mishandled their personal information? Also, that would be a very intrusive requirement that I don't think most people would agree to.
If you require "b" from above, do you think you would have enough participation to not only fund the site, but also to generate enough participation for discussions to make this forum a worthwhile venture? Let's face it, our little niche of "warbirds" is very small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I don't think there is enough demand to justify that WIX hide behind a "paywall". No offense to WIX, and I love you guys - but I don't think there is enough outside interest to keep this forum going should it require payments to use.
If you require "c" from above, that will eliminate 99% of all willing participants. Unless somebody just happens to know one of you personally, the chances are very remote that this method of identification verification could work on a large, international geographic scale, considering the amount of forum members outside of the United States.
In addition to all of this, people are a lot like water - they will seek the path of least resistance. That means other avenues for information sharing. Whether that means other or not yet developed forums, facebook, reddit, 4chan, or some other avenue - people will abandon this like a "hot potato" if the perception is that WIX is too much of a pain to deal with. A prime example of what could happen is the "Flypast Forum". It was a highly successful, credible and fantastic warbird forum for many, many years. Once that forum fell apart - and it didn't even require "real names" or a paywall - it has all but been abandoned. I fear the same would happen here should you require real names for registration or payment services to utilize.
Take it for what it's worth, but this is my honest 2 cents worth.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:38 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:Well everyone knows who I am, and besides Scott, you're the one who gave me the title of Col when you first took over Wix.
It's not stolen valor if you're a CAF member, right???
Of course I guess if you're a former CAF member, maybe you lose the title?My name is barely disguised in my user name...
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:20 pm
That's why I was I was not making it mandatory. I do see peoples objection to it being mandatory and I think I will shelve the idea for now (it comes up every year or two)
As for affecting the business of WIX... that made me giggle a bit. The troll issue destroyed the revenue stream years ago. There is really no business of WIX. The ad revenue is minimal at best and no longer covers the expenses. The main revenue is voluntary subscriptions. Currently there are 33 subscribers (90% at $2/month...) out of 5,000+ registered members (and 20,000+ facebook members). Currently unemployed but when I get back to work I doubt the expansion of the site will continue. Need a sugar daddy
Rob. Since you reminded me that I "gave" you the title I presume you will have no issue with me changing it? What name would you prefer as your user name Rob Rohr or Robert Rohr?
As for affecting the business of WIX... that made me giggle a bit. The troll issue destroyed the revenue stream years ago. There is really no business of WIX. The ad revenue is minimal at best and no longer covers the expenses. The main revenue is voluntary subscriptions. Currently there are 33 subscribers (90% at $2/month...) out of 5,000+ registered members (and 20,000+ facebook members). Currently unemployed but when I get back to work I doubt the expansion of the site will continue. Need a sugar daddy
Rob. Since you reminded me that I "gave" you the title I presume you will have no issue with me changing it? What name would you prefer as your user name Rob Rohr or Robert Rohr?
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:46 pm
It's always been embarrassing for me to use my real name for anything. That's why I just made up Mark Allen M.
My real name is William Stroker but in school I was called Willie Stroker.
My real name is William Stroker but in school I was called Willie Stroker.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pm
exhaustgases wrote:Any boards that use real names are inactive. And even then how will you know for sure someone is giving a real name?
Its just too dangerous these days to advertise yourself online, if you have said something that deranged people don't like
that could be very dangerous. A lot of people will not bother with this site anymore if that happens.
Beechtalk uses real names and is quite active. But, yes, there is no guarantee people will use their actual real names. And plenty of trolling and general ass-hattery still happens on BeechTalk.
Not sure I understand the angst over using 'rank' with names on a board like this. I'm military and if someone wants to pretend they are some Colonel or Captain on a board like this, it really doesn't matter to me. No different than people who pretend they are actual warbird pilots. The truth comes out in their posts.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:03 pm
So how many posts does it take to be a Group Captain or Squadron Leader anyway?
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:16 pm
Shuttle50 wrote:So how many posts does it take to be a Group Captain or Squadron Leader anyway?
Well, alot. More since I will be changing all of them in the next week or so.
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:29 pm
I don't want to use my real name because I don't want yet more opportunities to reduce my privacy. Anyone that needs to know my name already knows it or can ask me. I've been here for a very long time!
Re: Upcoming rule change for 2020.
Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:08 pm
Scott; If you were to charge everybody $2/month to post, wouldn't that solve most of the problems ?
Phil
Phil