Hawaii trying to evict Barbers Point Air Museum

[sandiego89]

From other sources it sounds like they supplied "proof" of insurance and environmental compliance after the eviction notice. More to the story I'm sure. Imagine it is a tough go keeping the small museum going.

[old iron]

The above article ends with

but if the museum is forced to close some of the historic aircraft and vehicles will be reduced to scrap metal.

[Blackbirdfan]

Hawaii DOT seems to not like museums. Their Harbors division are trying to confiscate a 4 masted tall ship (The only one of its type left) called "Falls of Clyde" that is tied up in Honolulu. They would like to take it out and sink it as a reef, however there are several groups trying to save it and return it to seaworthy status. At this point they have effectively seized the ship and seem to have no interest in talking to those groups who wish to save it. They have also placed a bond on the ship greater than $1M that must be paid before it goes anywhere. (You would think that if they wanted it gone, they would let it go.) Seems like they are trying for a $ grab with this stuff and that is all. Little care for what it is, or its historic significance, just interested in $.

Will

[sandiego89]

Hawaii DOT seems to not like museums. Their Harbors division are trying to confiscate a 4 masted tall ship (The only one of its type left) called "Falls of Clyde" that is tied up in Honolulu. They would like to take it out and sink it as a reef, however there are several groups trying to save it and return it to seaworthy status. At this point they have effectively seized the ship and seem to have no interest in talking to those groups who wish to save it. They have also placed a bond on the ship greater than $1M that must be paid before it goes anywhere. (You would think that if they wanted it gone, they would let it go.) Seems like they are trying for a $ grab with this stuff and that is all. Little care for what it is, or its historic significance, just interested in $.

Will

While it is easy to criticize various State and Federal governments, as they have done some bone headed things in the past, I ask what do you really expect an agency to do when a artifact or museum has run its course, and is no longer safe to operate?

I was not aware of the current status of the Falls of Clyde so looked it up when you brought it up as I had been aboard her some 25 years ago when stationed in Honolulu. From this article below it sounds like the ship has run its course. She is a 140 year old ship where numerous good ideas to save her have not come to anything. She is in poor shape. Sure I love old ships, but what options do you have?

http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolul ... lu-Harbor/

Sure there may have been folks interested in keeping her, and various "good ideas", but apparently none have the money to make it happen. Yes a shame, but reality. You do not want to give the ship to someone who does not have the means to take care of it properly- that only compounds or moves the problem. Asking for an insurance policy to the move is not such a bad idea- otherwise a well intentioned savior tries to move it and it sinks in the middle of harbor- what then? We have people "interested" in saving certain ships like the SS UNTIED STATES for decades.

Museum ships are hugely expensive to keep going, and very few make a real profit. We have a whole host of historic and WWII era ships including Aircraft carries, battleships, destroyers, subs and others that are literally and figuratively struggling to keep afloat. As we move farther away from the generations that served aboard these ships, and time moves on, some will likely go to the scrappers. I imagine there will be some gut wrenching decisions in the decade ahead.

I'm not trying to side with anyone here, but sometimes government does have a responsibly when an artifact or museum is no longer safe or solvent, and I say that as a warbird and ship enthusiast.

[Blackbirdfan]

Hawaii DOT seems to not like museums. Their Harbors division are trying to confiscate a 4 masted tall ship (The only one of its type left) called "Falls of Clyde" that is tied up in Honolulu. They would like to take it out and sink it as a reef, however there are several groups trying to save it and return it to seaworthy status. At this point they have effectively seized the ship and seem to have no interest in talking to those groups who wish to save it. They have also placed a bond on the ship greater than $1M that must be paid before it goes anywhere. (You would think that if they wanted it gone, they would let it go.) Seems like they are trying for a $ grab with this stuff and that is all. Little care for what it is, or its historic significance, just interested in $.

Will

While it is easy to criticize various State and Federal governments, as they have done some bone headed things in the past, I ask what do you really expect an agency to do when a artifact or museum has run its course, and is no longer safe to operate?

I was not aware of the current status of the Falls of Clyde so looked it up when you brought it up as I had been aboard her some 25 years ago when stationed in Honolulu. From this article below it sounds like the ship has run its course. She is a 140 year old ship where numerous good ideas to save her have not come to anything. She is in poor shape. Sure I love old ships, but what options do you have?

http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolul ... lu-Harbor/

Sure there may have been folks interested in keeping her, and various "good ideas", but apparently none have the money to make it happen. Yes a shame, but reality. You do not want to give the ship to someone who does not have the means to take care of it properly- that only compounds or moves the problem. Asking for an insurance policy to the move is not such a bad idea- otherwise a well intentioned savior tries to move it and it sinks in the middle of harbor- what then? We have people "interested" in saving certain ships like the SS UNTIED STATES for decades.

Museum ships are hugely expensive to keep going, and very few make a real profit. We have a whole host of historic and WWII era ships including Aircraft carries, battleships, destroyers, subs and others that are literally and figuratively struggling to keep afloat. As we move farther away from the generations that served aboard these ships, and time moves on, some will likely go to the scrappers. I imagine there will be some gut wrenching decisions in the decade ahead.

I'm not trying to side with anyone here, but sometimes government does have a responsibly when an artifact or museum is no longer safe or solvent, and I say that as a warbird and ship enthusiast.

Not to drag this off topic too far, but the plan is to take FoC back to Scotland to near where she was built, refit her and use her for sail trade and teaching seafaring. They had a heavy lift ship ready to go, but Harbors wouldn't talk to them, so the ship sailed off empty. Yes, she looks in rough shape, but according to people in the know, she isn't that bad off, just looks ugly. Yes, there are some leaks, but at 140 years old, and having not seen a drydock in decades, that is to be expected. Its also not helping that Harbors won't let anyone on the ship to do maintenance unless its a dire emergency.

There have been other ships in far worse shape that have been restored and are again sailing (Look up the barque "James Craig" for a very good example. She was actually sunk.) FoC is still afloat, and still has all her parts (packed away in containers or in the hold.) Yes it will take some $, but there is $ for the work available in Scotland. There are people looking forward to restoring her there as it will help revive the shipbuilding scene and put people to work. The catch is getting Harbors to play ball.

Will