Planes of Fame 2019

[GRNDP51]

Man I need to make it again sometime! Sigh - maybe next year.

From an organizer standpoint - the going rate is roughly $5K for a single mustang - so that is $40K in just appearance fees for the mustangs (plus fuel, oil, smoke oil). Going rate for a P-38 appearance is about $10K plus. Granted several of these planes are based at PoF and they have developed relationships so that makes a difference.

Tom P.

PoF (in my opinion) is a much different deal when it comes to getting aircraft to their show then say Thunder Over Michigan.

Typically the ramp is comprised of a lot of the same aircraft that are there every other year, those being the PoF owned planes.

The rest of them for the most part I highly doubt are planes that PoF "pays" an appearance fee for. A few reasons for that:

-I doubt Friedkin charges PoF for any of his planes. Steve ferries them to PoF and will more or less be the pilot during the show.
-Plenty of aircraft that aren't PoF are displayed at the museum, or based at Chino (Dottie, Honey Bunny, Lady Alice, Pacific Princess, Yanks P-40) for example
-PoF sends their aircraft to other museums events, for Warhawk sending 2 aircraft, I imagine PoF has an agreement that they will send 2 (or more) to their event in Nampa and the costs cancel out, CAF SoCal might be the same way since PoF sends their planes to Wings over Camarillo
-Rod Lewis is a sponsor, and I would assume that he doesn't charge for anything he sends, just needs the pilot(s) to get the planes there, especially since Steve test flies just about everything they get
-And plenty of the other Mustangs are friends of PoF that more than likely come on their own dime for the show, and PoF pays for their fuel and maybe helps with lodging for the weekend (all of the NorCal Mustangs (Speedball, Blondie, Lady Jo, they're all friends and this is a yearly meet-up for them)
-Then there are a few that PoF presumably pays for like "normal" airshows do, but it's probably minimal at best.

It's nice having a few pilots on the team that are trusted by 99.9% of warbird owners to fly their stuff, also helps when you have a huge selection of aircraft of your own to bargain with other museums that have their own airshows!

Specifically to your point of P-38's costing $10k a show, the 4 that they had last year probably cost them a fraction of that. Skidoo is PoF owned of course, PoF was a big reason Collings P-38 was flying again so the least they can do is have it on display at the show (and it was at Chino anyway), Thoughts of Midnite was probably a courtesy from Dan (no appearance fee, and I think it was at Chino most of last year), and Steve is one of (if not the only) qualified pilots in White 33, so they probably only had to pay for the fuel to get it to Chino (no lodging fees, maybe a small appearance fee).

[wendovertom]

Man I need to make it again sometime! Sigh - maybe next year.

From an organizer standpoint - the going rate is roughly $5K for a single mustang - so that is $40K in just appearance fees for the mustangs (plus fuel, oil, smoke oil). Going rate for a P-38 appearance is about $10K plus. Granted several of these planes are based at PoF and they have developed relationships so that makes a difference.

Tom P.

PoF (in my opinion) is a much different deal when it comes to getting aircraft to their show then say Thunder Over Michigan.

Typically the ramp is comprised of a lot of the same aircraft that are there every other year, those being the PoF owned planes.

The rest of them for the most part I highly doubt are planes that PoF "pays" an appearance fee for. A few reasons for that:

-I doubt Friedkin charges PoF for any of his planes. Steve ferries them to PoF and will more or less be the pilot during the show.
-Plenty of aircraft that aren't PoF are displayed at the museum, or based at Chino (Dottie, Honey Bunny, Lady Alice, Pacific Princess, Yanks P-40) for example
-PoF sends their aircraft to other museums events, for Warhawk sending 2 aircraft, I imagine PoF has an agreement that they will send 2 (or more) to their event in Nampa and the costs cancel out, CAF SoCal might be the same way since PoF sends their planes to Wings over Camarillo
-Rod Lewis is a sponsor, and I would assume that he doesn't charge for anything he sends, just needs the pilot(s) to get the planes there, especially since Steve test flies just about everything they get
-And plenty of the other Mustangs are friends of PoF that more than likely come on their own dime for the show, and PoF pays for their fuel and maybe helps with lodging for the weekend (all of the NorCal Mustangs (Speedball, Blondie, Lady Jo, they're all friends and this is a yearly meet-up for them)
-Then there are a few that PoF presumably pays for like "normal" airshows do, but it's probably minimal at best.

It's nice having a few pilots on the team that are trusted by 99.9% of warbird owners to fly their stuff, also helps when you have a huge selection of aircraft of your own to bargain with other museums that have their own airshows!

Specifically to your point of P-38's costing $10k a show, the 4 that they had last year probably cost them a fraction of that. Skidoo is PoF owned of course, PoF was a big reason Collings P-38 was flying again so the least they can do is have it on display at the show (and it was at Chino anyway), Thoughts of Midnite was probably a courtesy from Dan (no appearance fee, and I think it was at Chino most of last year), and Steve is one of (if not the only) qualified pilots in White 33, so they probably only had to pay for the fuel to get it to Chino (no lodging fees, maybe a small appearance fee).

That's my point, its the relationships that make it all possible! I have been told that when Hill AFB puts on a show their performer budget is upwards of $200K. And they usually only have 5 or 6 vintage warbirds.

Tom P.

[MKD1966]

Man I need to make it again sometime! Sigh - maybe next year.

From an organizer standpoint - the going rate is roughly $5K for a single mustang - so that is $40K in just appearance fees for the mustangs (plus fuel, oil, smoke oil). Going rate for a P-38 appearance is about $10K plus. Granted several of these planes are based at PoF and they have developed relationships so that makes a difference.

Tom P.

PoF (in my opinion) is a much different deal when it comes to getting aircraft to their show then say Thunder Over Michigan.

Typically the ramp is comprised of a lot of the same aircraft that are there every other year, those being the PoF owned planes.

The rest of them for the most part I highly doubt are planes that PoF "pays" an appearance fee for. A few reasons for that:

-I doubt Friedkin charges PoF for any of his planes. Steve ferries them to PoF and will more or less be the pilot during the show.
-Plenty of aircraft that aren't PoF are displayed at the museum, or based at Chino (Dottie, Honey Bunny, Lady Alice, Pacific Princess, Yanks P-40) for example
-PoF sends their aircraft to other museums events, for Warhawk sending 2 aircraft, I imagine PoF has an agreement that they will send 2 (or more) to their event in Nampa and the costs cancel out, CAF SoCal might be the same way since PoF sends their planes to Wings over Camarillo
-Rod Lewis is a sponsor, and I would assume that he doesn't charge for anything he sends, just needs the pilot(s) to get the planes there, especially since Steve test flies just about everything they get
-And plenty of the other Mustangs are friends of PoF that more than likely come on their own dime for the show, and PoF pays for their fuel and maybe helps with lodging for the weekend (all of the NorCal Mustangs (Speedball, Blondie, Lady Jo, they're all friends and this is a yearly meet-up for them)
-Then there are a few that PoF presumably pays for like "normal" airshows do, but it's probably minimal at best.

It's nice having a few pilots on the team that are trusted by 99.9% of warbird owners to fly their stuff, also helps when you have a huge selection of aircraft of your own to bargain with other museums that have their own airshows!

Specifically to your point of P-38's costing $10k a show, the 4 that they had last year probably cost them a fraction of that. Skidoo is PoF owned of course, PoF was a big reason Collings P-38 was flying again so the least they can do is have it on display at the show (and it was at Chino anyway), Thoughts of Midnite was probably a courtesy from Dan (no appearance fee, and I think it was at Chino most of last year), and Steve is one of (if not the only) qualified pilots in White 33, so they probably only had to pay for the fuel to get it to Chino (no lodging fees, maybe a small appearance fee).

That's my point, its the relationships that make it all possible! I have been told that when Hill AFB puts on a show their performer budget is upwards of $200K. And they usually only have 5 or 6 vintage warbirds.

Tom P.

I have heard people reference the days when Howard Pardue put on the Breckinridge Airshow that he would tell folks - I'll come to your airshow if you will come to ours...

[GRNDP51]

In response to both of you, exactly. I'm sure Breckenridge when Howard was alive functioned very similar to Planes of Fame.

Airshows like Hill AFB will never be able to do what Planes of Fame, Thunder and Oshkosh do. The non-Warbird centered shows budget a few warbirds for the weekend and that's what you are gonna get. Another issue for Hill specifically is that isn't necessarily the best location to garner warbirds, especially without good connections.

Without any outside warbirds showing up to PoF, their show would still have more warbirds than most airshows in the country. Thunder on the other hand is, first of all, located in a pretty good location for warbird participation, and Michael has put together some great relationships across the country. It's a ton different starting a show that has no warbirds at the airport to begin with, and trying to get some to come. The organizers will end up paying appearance fees, gas, and lodging for each plane there.

The only aspect I prefer about Thunder compared to all the other warbird shows is that year after year Thunder will generally bring in new planes that haven't been before. Planes of Fame doesn't do this too often, but then again they don't really need to in order to make a killer show.

[GRNDP51]

Add another Sea Fury to the mix, Sea Fury N15S, I assume Bernie Vasquez brought her over

[JohnH]

The Mosquito hasn’t flown yet so it won’t be there.

No reason Steve couldn’t fly it a few times tomorrow and fly it to Chino on Thursday

Haha- that’s real funny- seriously ???! he has a huge airshow he’s involved with on top of everything else he does and there’s no time.

[Lon Moer]

posted two hours ago, the first airplane has parked on the ramp.

[GRNDP51]

Haha- that’s real funny- seriously ???! he has a huge airshow he’s involved with on top of everything else he does and there’s no time.

Very serious, it didn’t happen but there’s no reason it was off the table. The Mosquito was supposed to be there, and it would be a huge draw. Steve usually spends the days before the show ferrying planes anyway, would be no different if he test flew the Mosquito and ferried it to Chino....

[OD/NG]

Haha- that’s real funny- seriously ???! he has a huge airshow he’s involved with on top of everything else he does and there’s no time.

Very serious, it didn’t happen but there’s no reason it was off the table. The Mosquito was supposed to be there, and it would be a huge draw. Steve usually spends the days before the show ferrying planes anyway, would be no different if he test flew the Mosquito and ferried it to Chino....

I don't think you realize how little time Steve has and the amount of time he invests into preparation for the airshow. In addition to everything else mentioned, Steve also has to contend with a major NTSB investigation as well. What you said earlier was completely unrealistic.

[Lon Moer]

I'm sure everyone at PoF is in funeral mode and just pushing through to finish the air show has enough stress.

Nobody is working on projects this week.

[bdk]

The Mosquito was supposed to be there, and it would be a huge draw. Steve usually spends the days before the show ferrying planes anyway, would be no different if he test flew the Mosquito and ferried it to Chino....

Does the FAA need to give it an airworthiness certificate first, or can it immediately fly again on the foreign registration? Not sure how these things work.

What kind of draw is it really? How many people make their attendance decision based on one aircraft? Would be quite a disappointment if the aircraft had a maintenance issue during the show or on the way to Chino.

[sandiego89]

.... Mosquito...

What kind of draw is it really? How many people make their attendance decision based on one aircraft?.

I have. I will go out if my way to see a type that I have never seen before. This was particularly true when I went to my local show, the Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach, where I made a specific descisuon to attend when the Lancaster came down a few years ago and then the Mosquito. I was not going to miss the Mosquito.

I even went to the Oceana air show just to see a Vampire fly.

If I see a schedule that has types I have seen, I may pass.

[GRNDP51]

What kind of draw is it really? How many people make their attendance decision based on one aircraft? Would be quite a disappointment if the aircraft had a maintenance issue during the show or on the way to Chino.

Considering there hasn't been a Mosquito flying in California in who knows how long, it would be quite a draw. Already this year there have been plenty of people who have gone or not gone, planning on going or not planning on going, in regards to the XP-82. To your third point, the airshow it was supposed to make in Florida had plenty of people disappointed when it was listed to show and didn't. The Mosquito was never listed for Chino, but Steven said they planned on having it there so it was obviously on the mind...

[ErrolC]

The Mosquito was supposed to be there, and it would be a huge draw. Steve usually spends the days before the show ferrying planes anyway, would be no different if he test flew the Mosquito and ferried it to Chino....

Does the FAA need to give it an airworthiness certificate first, or can it immediately fly again on the foreign registration? Not sure how these things work.

What kind of draw is it really? How many people make their attendance decision based on one aircraft? Would be quite a disappointment if the aircraft had a maintenance issue during the show or on the way to Chino.

ZK-BCV was Exported on 20th Feb. N474PZ issued 7th March.

And have a laugh at the FAA entry.
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... rtxt=474PZ

[GRNDP51]

I believe Palm Springs will be sending their newly airworthy T-33! Quite the looker, hope it's true.