Kermit's Storch wing fold

Michel Lemieux · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:15 pm

Kermit's Storch wing fold

Cool, interesting engineering, ingenious....and funny to watch!

Mick G · **Joined:** Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:39 pm **Posts:** 213

Wow, this was painful to watch, the crew seem to be dumber than a sack of rocks

Baldeagle · **Posted:** Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:02 am

Mick G wrote:

Wow, this was painful to watch, the crew seem to be dumber than a sack of rocks

Clearly they need the Storch expertise of a genius like you.

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CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:58 pm

Baldeagle wrote:

Mick G wrote:

Wow, this was painful to watch, the crew seem to be dumber than a sack of rocks

Clearly they need the Storch expertise of a genius like you.

-

Where's the like button here? :twisted:

grimes · **Joined:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:54 pm **Posts:** 34

While I'm not so harsh to call them "dumber than a sack of rocks" like the poster above, I have to agree that it was pretty painful to watch.

They really should have had the procedure with them before attempting to fold the wings.

They nearly forgot a pin that would have damaged the control arms, and had that guy not been up there watching, they would have ripped that electrical connection out on the first wing. They almost ripped the electrical connector on the other side too.

It should be disconnected from the access hole for the control pins, not while folding the wings.

A procedure would have solved a lot of that.

airnutz · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:20 am

grimes wrote:

While I'm not so harsh to call them "dumber than a sack of rocks" like the poster above, I have to agree that it was pretty painful to watch.

They really should have had the procedure with them before attempting to fold the wings.

A procedure would have solved a lot of that.

After reading the comments in this thread I watched the video. Two things came to mind, (1) not a checklist or instructional in anyone's hands going step-by-step, (2) If you are part of the procedure...hand the camera to someone else. Focus your attention on the task at hand....

From the comfort of my quarterback couch I found myself talking to the screen and hands getting all fidgety...
wait..what about that?...watch it!!...Kermit your camera guy need to keep the target in-frame..no camera guy???...Kermit! HAND OFF THE CAMERA!!! Arrrggghhhh...I'm wore out...this Warbird stuff is strenuous... I need a nap... :shock:

Thanks for sharing Mr. Weeks!

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:48 pm

I think what a lot of people are missing is that there may not be a procedure, checklist, or otherwise. If you listen to what's being said, they're trying to figure out how it goes because it's been a long time and they don't have any manual for doing it. Kermit even said once or twice that it is part of why they were folding the wings now (beyond making more room) was to document how its done and make a procedure. I applaud them for being willing to put themselves out there, mistakes and all, so that we all can learn about it.

grimes · **Joined:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:54 pm **Posts:** 34

CAPFlyer wrote:

I think what a lot of people are missing is that there may not be a procedure, checklist, or otherwise. If you listen to what's being said, they're trying to figure out how it goes because it's been a long time and they don't have any manual for doing it. Kermit even said once or twice that it is part of why they were folding the wings now (beyond making more room) was to document how its done and make a procedure. I applaud them for being willing to put themselves out there, mistakes and all, so that we all can learn about it.

It took me 30 seconds to look up online and find the original 1940 dated manual.

A little more searching would probably find a translation.

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:04 pm

All well and good to find listings of manuals. I'm pretty sure he's got a fairly complete set for it, just as he has full sets of documentation for most of his aircraft. The problem is, sometimes that stuff isn't in "the manual". Military manuals have a bad habit of dividing things up like that. It's entirely possible that how to fold the wings is in the Pilot's Manual, but it might also be in the Erection & Maintenance manual, or there might be a "field operations" manual that contains it.

For example, I have a the Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for the C-69 Constellation (AN 01-75CJ-1, Rev. 15 Mar 1945). It's 138 pages long, but there's no weight & balance section within it. Why? Because there is a separate manual (should be 01-75CJ-9) that contained all that stuff, plus a loading sliderule; all of which the Loadmaster took care of. There's not even mention of the Center of Gravity envelope in the Dash-1 for the C-69, only it's MTOW, MLW, and "standard" empty weight. That separation continues even to today's military transports.

But back to the original issue - great, they find a manual and it gives a description of how to do it. But it says you need 15 guys to complete the procedure and Kermit wants to be able to do it with 5. Now he still needs to work it out and write new procedures to fit his need. Again, the stated purpose of the video was to make a procedure on how to fold the wings the way that they want to do it and film it so they had a reference. They didn't have to publish it with all the warts, but they did because they want to be honest that sometimes it doesn't go as smoothly as you'd think and show their process of learning. So, instead of berating them for "not reading the manual", how about applaud them for proving they're human and that they want to learn and show how they learn instead of portraying themselves as "experts" with slick editing to cut out all the errors along the way.

JFS61 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:44 pm **Posts:** 305

CAPFlyer wrote:

All well and good to find listings of manuals. I'm pretty sure he's got a fairly complete set for it, just as he has full sets of documentation for most of his aircraft. The problem is, sometimes that stuff isn't in "the manual". Military manuals have a bad habit of dividing things up like that. It's entirely possible that how to fold the wings is in the Pilot's Manual, but it might also be in the Erection & Maintenance manual, or there might be a "field operations" manual that contains it.

For example, I have a the Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions for the C-69 Constellation (AN 01-75CJ-1, Rev. 15 Mar 1945). It's 138 pages long, but there's no weight & balance section within it. Why? Because there is a separate manual (should be 01-75CJ-9) that contained all that stuff, plus a loading sliderule; all of which the Loadmaster took care of. There's not even mention of the Center of Gravity envelope in the Dash-1 for the C-69, only it's MTOW, MLW, and "standard" empty weight. That separation continues even to today's military transports.

But back to the original issue - great, they find a manual and it gives a description of how to do it. But it says you need 15 guys to complete the procedure and Kermit wants to be able to do it with 5. Now he still needs to work it out and write new procedures to fit his need. Again, the stated purpose of the video was to make a procedure on how to fold the wings the way that they want to do it and film it so they had a reference. They didn't have to publish it with all the warts, but they did because they want to be honest that sometimes it doesn't go as smoothly as you'd think and show their process of learning. So, instead of berating them for "not reading the manual", how about applaud them for proving they're human and that they want to learn and show how they learn instead of portraying themselves as "experts" with slick editing to cut out all the errors along the way.

Sorry, but they put it out there, warts and all, so we are free to criticize it (warts and all).

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:31 am

I'm not saying you can't criticize. Informed or constructive criticism is one thing. Much of what's on this threat isn't that. It's name calling in one case, and in several others, it's ill-informed. Just saying "RTFM" isn't criticism. And, as I was trying to point out, when it comes to historic aircraft, the manual doesn't always have all the information. It also assumes many times that manpower isn't an issue as many of these airplanes were originally operated by a military or commercial operator who had plenty of people available to get a task done. As I said before - the commentary within the video and the description are clear what the goals are, yet several here made posts that disregarded it. That's not criticism, and that's what I directly responded to.

Michel Lemieux · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:31 am

Wow....and I was simply impressed with mechanical simplicity of the whole thing....lol....

Spitty · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:09 pm

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Wow....and I was simply impressed with mechanical simplicity of the whole thing....lol....

The Zero wing tip fold mechanism is awesome to watch as well.

Michel Lemieux · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Quote:

The Zero wing tip fold mechanism is awesome to watch as well.

Have a link?

Tks

JohnTerrell · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Regarding the A6M Zero wingtip folding, watch from the 0:48 mark in this video:

Warbird Information Exchange

Kermit's Storch wing fold

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