President Dewey's VC-121

[JohnB]

I have read, somewhere...of course I can't find it now... that the sole VC-121B was earmarked as a presidential transport for Dewey.
But as we know, Truman pulled off an upset and kept his Douglas C-118.

Anyone know why Dewey would have used a Lockheed? We know Eisenhower used Constallations (two VC-121As, one E) so was it a political thing?
That would be easier to believe if both Douglas and Lockheed weren't from the same state (California).

Here's what Baugher says:
Lockheed VC-121B Constellation 46-0608
MSN 749-2600. Model 749-79-38.
Delivered to USAF Nov 1948 as VIP transport for possible presidential use.[/b]
That's backed up by Rene Francillon in his Lockheed aircraft book. But I do recall an author (I thought it was R.F.) directly stating that the planned use was cancelled after Truman was re-elected.

And there is this...when JFK was elected, he used a VC-118 (now on display at Pima) as his backup instead of Eisenhower's VC-121 as might be expected.

Last edited by JohnB on Thu May 31, 2018 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[menards]

I have read, somewhere...of course I can't find it now... that the sole VC-121B was earmarked as a presidential transport for Dewey.
But as we know, Truman pulled off an upset and kept his Douglas C-118.

Anyone know why Dewey would have used a Lockheed? We know Eisenhower used Constallations (two VC-121As, one E) so was it a political thing?
That would be easier to believe if both Douglas and Lockheed weren't from the same state (California).

Here's what Baugher says:
Lockheed VC-121B Constellation
MSN 749-2600. Model 749-79-38.
Delivered to USAF Nov 1948 as VIP transport for possible presidential use.
That's backed up by Rene Francillon in his Lockheed aircraft book. But I do recall an author (I thought it was R.F.) directly stating that the planned use was cancelled after Truman was re-elected.

And there is this...when JFK was elected, he used a VC-118 (now on display at Pima) as his backup instead of Eisenhower's VC-121 as might be expected.

As to "Anyone know why Dewey would have used a Lockheed?"

Because this is how the system works. It hasn't changed. Lockheed offers their "assistance" getting a candidate elected, usually in the form of capital, in this case, a VIP aircraft and most likely campaign assistance. Then post election, Lockheed is "guaranteed" to win several no bid contracts. Usually the benefit to the contributor significantly outweigh the cost. Dewey didn't win the election, and Lockheed didn't have to make good on the deal. The system still works like this. You will get all the government that you pay for. If you want to influence legislation, that's going to take some significant coin. Alas, WIX is not a politico forum, and the mods will probably delete this post. but that's your answer in a nutshell.

[k5083]

I don't think your post is offensive or should be pulled, and it addresses the OP's question. But it is without any factual support.

August

[menards]

I don't think your post is offensive or should be pulled, and it addresses the OP's question. But it is without any factual support.

August

Well, the back room dealing, political promises, chits, favors and what have you aren't exactly 100% transparent. It is however, a known fact that in '47 there were massive job-cuts at Lockheed, and L-749 construction was brought to a standstill as a result. A simpler, non-conspiracy theory, best educated guess would be that possibly Lockheed execs thought at the time if the expected new president-elect was flying all over the world in a shiny new VIP Constellation, orders would start flowing in from airlines and give a needed boost to production lines.

[JohnB]

Writing about Boeing Stratocruisers, Ernest Gann (IIRC), mentioned that Boeing made contributions to Truman and or the Democratic party. Thus, Northwest Airlines was given a lucrative Asian route by the CAB, thus ensuring the purchase of some of the expensive Boeings by a mid-size carrier which, until then, had no need for them.

I'm not a huge fan of conspiracy theories, but obviously some quid pro quo goes on. But having spent some time in the acquisition branch of the USAF, there is less politics than some critics cynically assume there is.

However, my question was genuine...Perhaps it was as simple as Lockheed wanted to showcase the Connie. However, that thoey doesn't address any USAF opinions on the matter...Perhaps they didn't care since both the Constellation and DC-6 were in the inventory (though Truman's C-118 Independence was different than the later C-118A Liftmasters).
Nor does it address the seeming snubbing of the still capable and fairly new (7 years-old) VC-121E by the Kennedy administration, where they apparently eschewed Ike's Air Force One and used a VC-118 as a transport.

Last edited by JohnB on Thu May 31, 2018 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Mark Sampson]

The enormous cost of airliners and the economics of the airline business have caused lots of ...complicated... dealing, at least as far back as the Boeing 247, and right up to today. It would be no surprise if there had been all kinds of back-room maneuvering around a presidential aircraft.

[marine air]

Okay here's the deal as told to me by my former instructor, Col. James Haun . Colonel Haun was a pilot in the Presidential Squadron and flew all the aircraft in that squadron at that time. The Republican controlled congress was very giddy about their candidate being ahead in the polls and a "sure thing " to be the next president. Since victory was assured they decided to award Dewey with a brand new Air Force 1 with his name on it, and all kinds of personal details. The coffee cups even had mustache catchers, the band across one side of the cup to keep frothy foam from getting on the new president's mustache. Only problem was, when everyone woke up the next morning, Truman not Dewey had won.
The squadron C.O. had the cups hastily removed as well as other personal items but it was too late. Truman knew about them and wanted them put back on the airplane. He took great pride as president flying in "Dewey's Connie" and sipping from Dewey's coffee cups. You can find this account in the late Colonel James R. Haun's book "Spitfire Wingman from Tennessee."

[JohnB]

Great story...and I'm not questioning it, but all the NMUSAF mentions about Truman is his C-118. The Independence was just a year or so old in '48, so I'm not sure why Truman would have used the Constellation.

Does anyone have have any real evidence HST used the Connie?
The airframe was scrapped at Ryan Field near Tucson in 2001.
If it had actually been used as AF-1 (or whatever they called it then), it might have had a better outcome.

[marine air]

That's why I listed Col. Haun's book. His original version was titled "Who Says There Are No "OLD, BOLD "Pilot's ! It's in the book . An autobiography, not fiction. He was a larger than life character in the Nashville area. YOu know they were running junkets out to Nevada a couple times a week with U.S. Senators on board plus their V.I.P. guests so they could watch above ground atomic detonations? So Roosevelt's C-54 "The Sacred Cow, the Connie , I think they had two or three Connies, and all the aircraft were being used a lot. After a year or so , someone decided releasing all the radiation into the atmosphere wasn't such a great idea. It's in the book. read it.

[Human Factor]

From the point of view of someone with no skin in the game (vote!), my understanding is that when a new AF1 (I know there's more than one) is required, whichever President orders it will never fly in it.

Trump has ordered the next fleet (747-8) but he will never fly in it as President presumably (irrespective of if he gets in again).

[JohnB]

I believe the -800 was ordered during the Obama administration.
It takes a long time to outfit one (no doubt costing more and taking more time than to build the airframe), but I can't see the USAF holding off using it for years once it's finished.