Warbird Information Exchange

Dakoblue,

This is the clearer image of F-13 in flight with the four flags and Felix the Cat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUTnxD5LpW4

A few of us can see a shadow (where the numbers cross over especially and in front of the 5) of the '13' and the area of repainted blue.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

Shame the fin is missing. It is thought to be BuNo3986 as recorded in the fly by for the press.

Mark

_________________
'Coups De Foudre'
(511FS, 405FG watering hole), St Dizier, France 1944/45

As a modeler too, I can dig it!!

In fact I too was eye-balling a couple of 1/72 F4F-4s in my stash and contemplating what it would take to visually back-date them to -3s aboard Lady Lex.

I think Adm. Gayler's Wildcat is proof that you can't always be 100% accurate in your markings based on photos and documents . It would seem to me that this is evidence that aircraft #s could change throughout the deployment without being well documented. Aircraft would get shuffled around when one lost and then replaced with another from the Hangar bay rafters or from ashore.

F-5 is interesting as it appears to have been another number (don't think they were called Modex back then) assignment previously, which begs the question: If Gayler's F-5 used to be some other No. ......then what became of previous aircraft to wear F-5? (Its almost like we need a ROGUE ONE prequel to the Battle of Midway movie to explain the origins of RED(F)-5

Question: Does anyone know, does Adm. Gayler flight log books still exist and can they be referenced?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Shay,

Noel Gayler was assigned F-13 when he was with VF-3 in March 42.

In April 42, 19 F4F's (out of 21) were assigned to VF-2 from VF-3 so the likelihood is a lot of them carried Felix the Cat emblems. Pilots would have generally taken there allocated F4F unless they were required to leave them behind and operated new airframes - not so in this case.

As far as we know, No log books for Gayler (or any other VF-3 pilots from this period). Lost on Lex I believe.

Was recoded F-5. No idea why though have been thinking that as Gayler was the XO, he was allocated F-5 (C/O Group F-1 to F-4) and XO Group F-5 to F-8.

Again, don't know if these pilots/F4F's were officially 'transferred' to VF-2 or seconded to the unit. Those VF-3 pilots listed as killed/missing are listed in the ships records as belonging to VF-3.

Mark

_________________
'Coups De Foudre'
(511FS, 405FG watering hole), St Dizier, France 1944/45

Hi,

yes I saw the film was posted earlier ,it is high probability I would say 90% just for clarity ,bombing mark is missing (when the bombing took place?)

rgds

Thanks Shep for that.

One possibility that I haven't heard mentioned yet is that Adm. Gaylor assumed control of F-5 and transferred his name and markings to the new aircraft???

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Due to the fact that the rest of the markings seen on F-13 during the O'Hare photo flight, precisely match the sunken F-5 especially the fact that the top 3 kill flags are obviously older and the bottom flag is clearly newer and brighter and the fact that the F-5 is clearly overpainted on a 2 digit number makes it more than likely that Adm. Gayler retained his old steed F-13, and had it renumbered to match his new position of XO.

Thanks Stan. I think you may be right. I hadn't noticed the similar coloring or discoloring of the flags before. Does anyone have any working theories as to the origin of the bomb marking? Thanks

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Mark attributed the bomb marking to the Lae-Salamaua raid(Salamaua-Lae raid) Gayler's division executed against Japanese AA positions with 30# bombs noted on page 5. The raid was March 10, 1942.

Edit
Correct spelling and add date.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

@Shay, to answer your previous question as to the fate of the previous VF-3 F-5, according to Lundstrom in "The First Team" p134 F-5 buno 4009 was sold to VF-42. And lost on takeoff 3-14-42. The pilot on the accident flight was Ens. Haas.
This makes it probable that there was an empty #5 slot on 4-15-42. I can't seem to find any information about the appearance or designations of the original VF-2 birds before the VF-3 aircraft were cross decked.

Still looking,

Bit info on the move around before Coral Sea.

Five pilots of VF-2 listed before the VF-3 pilots joined them.
Lt Cdr Ramsey, Lt R S Bull (KIA), Lt C F Rheinhart (KIA), CAP PG Baker (KIFA - mid air - 3 claims), AP2c R F Kanzie (?) Only Ramsey seems to have survived from the VF-2 starting five.

Enlisted Naval Aviation Pilots 1916 -1981
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PMS ... ea&f=false

VF-2 were known as the 'AP Squadron'. ??

Reprinted courtesy of "JAAHS - Fall 1969". Any idea what this was and where to get a copy?

Mark

_________________
'Coups De Foudre'
(511FS, 405FG watering hole), St Dizier, France 1944/45

Wow - every time I come back and look at the new images I keep thinking, "wow". Incredible to think that the tool box dropped thousands of feet and landed there and has been sitting there just so. Of course it may have slipped out of the Lexington as she came down but still.

And to a based on the way the metal is corroding and 'sliding', there must be something of a slope to the bottom where it all has landed.

Tom P.

Still looking for Fred Noonan’s hat, though. Oh, sorry - wrong thread.

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Chris

R/V Petrel has moved on to the Solomon Islands, where they located the wreckage of USS Juneau (CL-52) two days ago (17 March 2018)

https://www.paulallen.com/uss-juneau-wreck-located-famous-for-sullivan-brothers/

In my very first post of this thread I speculated that there "could be exciting days ahead." But, I admit I had no idea how accurate that would prove to be!

What's next? Hornet? Wasp? Where would you go after this?

Humm - the USS Wasp or the USS Hornet would be on my list.

Tom P.

Wasp is only about a hundred miles from Juneau. Little doubt that Allen and the Petrel crew are doing a grand tour of early war lost US warships.

There’s also something poetic about them locating the Juneau on St Patrick’s Day.