USS Lexington (CV-2) wreck found .. 4 March 2018 [revised]

[lucky52]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.It looks like the early paint scheme had a small insignia and the squadron number, a T. and then the plane number.These TBDs have a large insignia with only the T and the plane number with the squadron number left off.I wonder if this was expediting the repainting or they didn't"t want the squadron number on there for some other reason.In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter, just curious.

[Russ Matthews]

I located a vid last night showing what looked like a side number "8"-T-7 taking off. Again....not sure about schemes and numbers either. Smarter guys will have to address that aspect.

John .. I think we'll find that is actually "6-T-7" and that the footage was shot aboard USS Enterprise (CV-6) shortly before the war.

Back in the days before ubiquitous video-enabled cell phones, internet streaming and satellite link ups, newsreels describing a breaking story often had to be cut using whatever footage was already at hand.

One resource I've seen used repeatedly is a film depicting training operations with Air Group 6 during massive maneuvers held sometime (if I recall correctly) October, 1941. It's terrific, detailed stuff showing TBDs, F4Fs and SBDs being armed, spotted, launched, flown, and recovered. The original raw source footage is held in the National Archives.

Portions of it were used to great effect by the production team at the National WWII Museum in illustrating the recollections of VT-6 veteran Ron Graetz about the 1 Feb 1942 raid against Kwajalein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V0XOkg9a70

Unfortunately, they didn't use the same launching sequence you pointed out from the Pathé piece, but in the other shots (especially of a TBD landing around 3:25) you can see that the marking/coding scheme is in the exact same style.

Last edited by Russ Matthews on Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Russ Matthews]

I'm with you on this. Definitely a composite using several scans. I don't think you can get this level of detail from a wider swath scan.

You're all correct. In fact, the initial posting from R/V Petrel describes the image as a "mosaic" for precisely that reason. It has been compiled from data collected during a series of overlapping parallel passes back and forth over the target area .. a process fittingly known in undersea search circles as "mowing the lawn."

[Mark Allen M]

The flight deck looking from just aft of the transom




The Lexington sign on the starboard stern. The supports for the quad 20mm guns are in the back ground.


looking onto the starboard quarter.


The quad 20mm guns on the starboard stern quarter.

[Nathan]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.It looks like the early paint scheme had a small insignia and the squadron number, a T. and then the plane number.These TBDs have a large insignia with only the T and the plane number with the squadron number left off.I wonder if this was expediting the repainting or they didn't"t want the squadron number on there for some other reason.In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter, just curious.

There were a variety of insignia sizes

and Lexingtons aircraft had white side numbers and Yorktown had black afain

[Nathan]

there is some research stating this F-5 is actually F-13? Or former F-13? I can see another number under the new blue gray.


???

[Mmarland]

First time member. Such a great find and story. There is an excellent book by John Lundstorm, The First Team: Pacific Naval Air Combat. Lots of details on USS Lexington.

Mike

[lucky52]

Have they released the Dauntless pictures yet?

[Richard W.]

These images are so gorgeous with their color and detail. I wonder if anyone would make a coffee table book from them. Hopefully there are more images of the ship itself on the way.

That view of the Wildcat would make a fantastic poster.

[Mark Allen M]

Greetings everyone, I have been in contact with the guys from the RV Petrel. What they release as far as more photos will be posted in this thread as they come out. The RV Petrel folks like the thread as well.

Keep up the great work in researching this ship and it's aircraft. Great stuff.

M

[6trn4brn]

WOW!!! On so many levels, just wow! Now hearing that the crew of the Petrel are following our thread here? Another great big WOW and thank you all so much for sharing the photos, for all your hard work and for Paul Allen being the man behind the whole thing. Fandamtstic!

[lmritger]

So, some analysis by Stan Winke and Mark Sheppard over on the WIX Facebook page has turned up solid, almost irrefutable evidence to support a pretty remarkable theory... the Wildcat we've all been salivating over is even more historic than we think because it was flown by Butch O'Hare for a newsreel along with Jimmy Thach on 10 April 1942.

I'm at work so can't post the Facebook or YouTube video links but the summary is this: Thach was in F-1 and Butch was in F-13 (BuNo 3986) for this flight. At one point, Butch swings his F4F in close to the camera ship and we get a really good closeup look at the cockpit area... and that ship sports three old and one fresh Japanese kill flags, in the exact same position as "F-5". And not only that... all of the marking locations, from the star to Felix, all match up perfectly with that ship. And most importantly, there is a patch of fresher blue-grey paint beneath the "5", and you can just make out the ghost of the number "13" beneath it.

We won't have positive proof unless Petrel gets a shot of the fin to check the BuNo, but the evidence is pretty strong that O'Hare flew Gayler's ship for that film sortie, for who knows what reason... maybe his regular bird was down for maintenance, who knows.

As I told another friend, with that information, you think the folks in Pensacola aren't working packing up two miles of rope and a bucket about right now?

Come on Navy, go lift those birds and bring them home. I'll throw in 20 bucks to help. And I bet if you asked nicely, VFA-31 might be willing to chip in a buck or two as well, LOL.

Lynn

[Mark Allen M]

A note from RV Petrel: "We'll be posting images of each plane very soon"

Lynn, those same videos have been posted here on WIX as well by Nathan & JFS61.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66317

The last video you can see F-5 second from the last F4F taxiing out. If this is the same F-5 as that sitting on the bottom near the Lex.

[Mark Allen M]

I'd also suggest not to jump too far ahead in any conclusions about who's F4F is sitting down there. So far Gayler is the lead conclusion and the last video posted by JFS61 clearly shows an F-5 F4F taxiing out. Whether it's the same F-5 as what is sitting on the ocean floor is still up for debate and what number was painted out to add that F-5 is still uncertain. No concrete proof yet just speculation. Hopefully we'll see a shot of the buNo on that particular F4F.

Gotta wait and see what other proof may show up before claiming 'solved'. I'd hate for this thread to turn into another of those AE debates that turns sour with too many people thinking they have it solved before it's solved. Like I stated, more photos are coming that just may answer some questions decisively. Fun stuff though.

[lmritger]

I'd also suggest not to jump too far ahead in any conclusions about who's F4F is sitting down there. So far Gayler is the lead conclusion and the last video posted by JFS61 clearly shows an F-5 F4F taxiing out. Whether it's the same F-5 as what is sitting on the ocean floor is still up for debate and what number was painted out to add that F-5 is still uncertain. No concrete proof yet just speculation. Hopefully we'll see a shot of the buNo on that particular F4F.

Gotta wait and see what other proof may show up before claiming 'solved'. I'd hate for this thread to turn into another of those AE debates that turns sour with too many people thinking they have it solved before it's solved. Like I stated, more photos are coming that just may answer some questions decisively. Fun stuff though.

Oh, believe me, I completely agree... which is why I said "We won't have positive proof unless Petrel gets a shot of the fin to check the BuNo".

I can't wait to see those pics... especially the rest of the TBDs.

Lynn