USS Lexington (CV-2) wreck found .. 4 March 2018 [revised]

[dakoblue]

That's a good theory as well, but I'm leaning towards Gayler simply because when there is no concrete evidence, one must go with the best of all possible data that can be determined as close to fact. The closeup photo of the F4F's cockpit area IMHO shows pretty clearly the letters 'G' and 'R'. This is all I have for proof so I'll have to believe it was Gayler's (at least in name)

I agree ,this is my best guessing too just saw this theory in other comments ,Gayler is also on the list of pilots evacuated from Lexington and Vorse was not
BTW what happened to Vorse after Lex sinking ,he landed on Yorktown or was evacuated other way ? cannot find with quick searching

[dakoblue]

Can someone here educate me on how the sinking of the Lexington happened? Brief overview is fine, but what I was trying to understand was a couple of questions:
The aircraft are separate from the main body of the wreck. Usually the main body of the wreck, being heavy, is where the sinking happened. Debris fields spread out when the depth is huge. So did the airplanes flutter down after the Lex rolled over? Or were they specifically ditched before the Lex was sunk by the torpedoes?
Was there any time to remove aircraft from the Lex after it started burning? Were flight ops cancelled because of the pitch of the deck?
How long after the battle was over was the Lex sunk? Did it sit there floating for a bit or was it pretty immediate?
The Navy has been very specific about the aircraft themselves not being war graves, though the Lex is considered to be one. Was there not an ability following the battle to remove bodies from the Lex?
Just curious, and know that someone here knows the answer to these questions. No rush, just things that I have been wondering about.
kevin

https://www.amazon.com/First-Team-Pacif ... 159114471X use searching page 278

[Mark Allen M]

A post from one of the gents at "The Museum Modeler" facebook page.

"I've identified this Lexington (CV-2) wreck image as 20mm splinter shielding atop the deckhouse amidships on CV-2's starboard side.. These guns and this shield were fitted during her Pearl Harbor refit in late March 1942. Amazingly, what appear to be yard notations are still present on the shield. These must have been painted over with 5-N which burned off during the fire, as they are still clearly visible above a layer of zinc oxide primer."

(Image Sources: Pearl Harbor Naval Yard General Notes, via Warship Pictorial 33; Vulcan Incorporated)

[dakoblue]

A post from one of the gents at "The Museum Modeler" facebook page.

"I've identified this Lexington (CV-2) wreck image as 20mm splinter shielding atop the deckhouse amidships on CV-2's starboard side.. These guns and this shield were fitted during her Pearl Harbor refit in late March 1942. Amazingly, what appear to be yard notations are still present on the shield. These must have been painted over with 5-N which burned off during the fire, as they are still clearly visible above a layer of zinc oxide primer."

(Image Sources: Pearl Harbor Naval Yard General Notes, via Warship Pictorial 33; Vulcan Incorporated)

this is amazing

[Mark Allen M]

Quite a boat ...

[Mark Allen M]

[Mark Allen M]

My favorite shot

[dakoblue]

excellent pictures !

[marine air]

Two Saturdays ago a friend and I drove down to see the warbirds at the CAF's Dixie Wing. It was incredible to see the Dauntless, P-63A, P-51, Corsair, T-6, etc. receiving their winter maintenance. Some of these have been "working warbirds for 50 years now not including flight time before CAF acquisition. It occurred to me that if The Dauntless or Helldiver were lost it would be simply impossible to replace them. Many of these flying warbirds can no longer be replaced if lost. The military and airshows seem to love having these aircraft in attendance because they help sell tickets and help recruit new folks into the military and inspire patriotism. A P-51D flew over the opening of this year's Super Bowl.

It's really time for the NHC to re-examine their policy on the Lake Michigan wrecks and now the Lexington wrecks. After 70 plus years, the value of the Navy's assets are deteriorating faster than their increase in value. The Lake Michigan aircraft simply haven't found enough sponsors to pay for the retrieval in return for the opportunity to "borrow" the aircraft and put on display.

One thought is to have a Paul Allen or similar person or corporation retrieve at their own cost, and in exchange be allowed to have some of them pass into private ownership. In the case of the Lexington, the Navy keeps the F4F and their choice of the Devastator. The entity paying for this keeps the remaining Devastators and any other aircraft pieces in exchange for the expense of retrieving.
Call it superstitious or whatever but maybe it's lucky that there are "7" TBD's down there. Also maybe it was divine providence that the Wildcat lays positoned as it is. If they hadn't photographed the four kill markings and the Pilot's name, no one would've been talking about retrieving it.
To me, retrieving these priceless and historical artifacts is as important as finding some old MIA remains from WW II. It would be a great remembrance and honor to those that lost their lives early in the war.

[dakoblue]

deleted post

Last edited by dakoblue on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

[lmritger]

Two Saturdays ago a friend and I drove down to see the warbirds at the CAF's Dixie Wing. It was incredible to see the Dauntless, P-63A, P-51, Corsair, T-6, etc. receiving their winter maintenance. Some of these have been "working warbirds for 50 years now not including flight time before CAF acquisition. It occurred to me that if The Dauntless or Helldiver were lost it would be simply impossible to replace them. Many of these flying warbirds can no longer be replaced if lost. The military and airshows seem to love having these aircraft in attendance because they help sell tickets and help recruit new folks into the military and inspire patriotism. A P-51D flew over the opening of this year's Super Bowl.

It's really time for the NHC to re-examine their policy on the Lake Michigan wrecks and now the Lexington wrecks. After 70 plus years, the value of the Navy's assets are deteriorating faster than their increase in value. The Lake Michigan aircraft simply haven't found enough sponsors to pay for the retrieval in return for the opportunity to "borrow" the aircraft and put on display.

One thought is to have a Paul Allen or similar person or corporation retrieve at their own cost, and in exchange be allowed to have some of them pass into private ownership. In the case of the Lexington, the Navy keeps the F4F and their choice of the Devastator. The entity paying for this keeps the remaining Devastators and any other aircraft pieces in exchange for the expense of retrieving.
Call it superstitious or whatever but maybe it's lucky that there are "7" TBD's down there. Also maybe it was divine providence that the Wildcat lays positoned as it is. If they hadn't photographed the four kill markings and the Pilot's name, no one would've been talking about retrieving it.
To me, retrieving these priceless and historical artifacts is as important as finding some old MIA remains from WW II. It would be a great remembrance and honor to those that lost their lives early in the war.

As one of the longest-term resident TBD nuts on this forum, believe me, NOTHING is more exciting than the idea that those seven Devastators not only still exist, but are sufficiently intact to entertain the idea of bringing them to the surface. I firmly believe the Navy has an absolute and unquestionable DUTY to do everything in it's power to bring all of these aircraft to the surface, because they perfectly fit with the stated vision and mission of the NHHC:

Vision:

Enhance the warfighting effectiveness of the U.S. Navy, using the power of History and Heritage to pass on hard-won lessons, foster unit combat cohesion, and garner the continuing support of the American people.

Mission:

The Naval History and Heritage Command serves as the Navy’s institutional memory by preserving, acquiring, producing, and disseminating history and heritage products and resources through Navy historical, archival, museum, curatorial, art, and underwater archaeological programs.

It's right there in their own documentation (found at https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... de-508.pdf) - so they have a mandate to do this. And I think everyone here understands the enormity of the task at hand; we're discussing the retrieval of an aircraft weighing roughly 6,000 lbs from 11,000 feet of water. The Norwegians have extensive experience in retrieving and preserving aircraft from cold salt water, so we know the techniques exist to make this happen successfully, but no one has pulled it off at that depth thus far. It will require vast reserves of two things: money, and institutional will. The money part can be addressed by a public/private partnership- this is an instance where I feel very certain that people will happily line up around the block to contribute to a fund which would bring up these aircraft. The institutional will is a different animal, however... and nothing will happen unless there are highly placed champions for this effort within the Naval and DOD command hierarchy.

So that, I think, needs to be the first priority. We in the aviation history community need to get the Fleet and Defense Dept on board with the benefits of having these aircraft above water rather than below. And though this may ruffle some feathers, I don't think any of these particular aircraft should be sold or otherwise transferred to private ownership... these are incredibly historic aircraft which played a key role in one of the best known battles in US naval history. They belong to We The People. I certainly don't feel that way about other aircraft with lesser pedigrees, to be honest- the Lake Michigan birds are a good example, there are still dozens of Wildcats and Dauntlesses down there which should also be brought up, and made available to the private market... hey, we could even sell salvage rights to those aircraft to fund the Coral Sea retrievals! (I'm kidding- mostly) But Coral Sea, like Midway, is a very special case. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but put another way, EACH of these aircraft is every bit as significant as Flak Bait or Memphis Belle in their own right, and collectively, I would say they're even more so.

Respectfully submitted,

Lynn

[dakoblue]

it is not a problem to be financed by state owned institution ,it is not e problem to finance by very rich persons as it will costs several millions of USD but is technically possible I thinki. I will be a great thing also to be possible to be sponsored by all of us to have a kind of certified proof we made part of this ,this could be a big part of to cover the costs .I t depends of PR and information spread

[garbs]

Another mosaic just posted by the 'RV Petrel' folks

"We try our best to make sure everything we post is accurate but in the case of the previously posted mosaic I made a mistake in the measurement of the Bow and Stern from the main portion of the wreck. It is only 500 meters or .26 of a nautical mile and not the 1 nautical mile as stated."

I'm also blown away by the progress made in sonar - the detail in this photo is amazing! Not sure what to make of the "rip" in the ocean floor though - I suppose it's the sonar "shadow" of some sort of ridge on the bottom. Looks like a hole ripped in masonite, with that furry edge. Or is this where the huge monsters come out of the bottom in the "Pacific Rim" movie?

Exciting stuff...

[CoastieJohn]

For grits-n-giggles, has anyone located any archival video footage of the Lex showing some of the located airframes? That would be something to see 1942 footage and then see a current color pic of the same airframe.

[CoastieJohn]

I'm also blown away by the progress made in sonar - the detail in this photo is amazing! Not sure what to make of the "rip" in the ocean floor though - I suppose it's the sonar "shadow" of some sort of ridge on the bottom. Looks like a hole ripped in masonite, with that furry edge. Or is this where the huge monsters come out of the bottom in the "Pacific Rim" movie?

Exciting stuff...

I too think the sensor imagery is spectacular. I noticed some of the target shadows are facing 180 degrees from each other. I'm taking a stab and speculating we're seeing a composite of track lines fused together to form the image we see? I'm hoping the civilian technology will soon be available so this can be done for ice recoveries and we get the same type imagery.