Warbird Information Exchange

I contacted the NHHC and they confirm these aircraft are not considered war graves.

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The clarity from these deep water cameras blows mine away.

Interesting and thanks for sharing.

I suppose if they were contained within the hull, they may be? Or did they discuss that?

Getting ahead of things here - but would any Japanese carriers/aircraft be in this kind of condition? (Visions f Kates and Val's thousands of feet down...)

I think one factor that contributed to this preservation is that the Lex had aircraft on deck which essentially floated off when she sank. I do not think any of the Japanese carriers at Midway had aircraft on deck, at least not many. The Leyte carriers also had no aircraft on deck (or anywhere else). The Shokaku and Taiho were, like the Lexington, torpedoed rather than bombed; does anyone know what the deck population was for these carriers when they sank?

At first I thought this was a Japanese "Long Lance" due to its length, but with closer attention to details it does appear to be the Mk 15 commonly used by US destroyers and PT's at the time. About 3.5' longer than the Mk 14, the Lance was longer yet at about 29'. The Mk 15 had the same problems as the sub-launched Mk 14 mostly centered around the Mk 6 exploder. We were still using a later mod Mk 14(we also had the Mk 37 acoustic wire-guided and '45 nuke) in diesel submarines when I left the service in '77, tho I understand '14's were phased out by 1980.
I'd like to see what the nose looks like, it's probably caved in from a direct strike(or possibly the bottom after dudding)...which would fall in with one of its other faults with depth control issues.

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

The sight of the TBD's makes me giddy with anticipation. I hope they can see their way to recovering them. Years ago I read of a boatload of Vultee P-66's(tho someone corrected that to be Vengeances...ok by me!) being sunk in deep water. When I see stuff like this it just makes me wonder what may be possible in the future.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Good deep sea salvage training for the Navy guys I think. Talk about a treasure trove of aircraft/time capsules.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Shouldn't TRAINING in underwater aircraft recovery be done with a CESSNA 152, not with something as rare as a Coral Sea veteran TBD (or even 7 of them)?

And why take the time and expense of TRAINING the Navy to do a job that experts are already prepared to accomplish?

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

"Training" was said tongue in cheek. I believe the Navy has the resources to save and preserve those priceless artifacts. I was just making up an excuse for them

I see Mr. Allen recovering the C-2 for the Navy as a training exercise and then using his resources and pull to recover several of the aircraft for the NMUSNA and for Flying Heritage.

The NMUSNA can't afford to recover the aircraft without a grant. If I am not mistaken their recent recoveries from Lake Michigan have been through sponsorship. Working with Mr. Allen would be a win for all sides. I would think that with Mr. Allen's resources that he might even be able to get title which may lead to the possibility of a TBD returning to the air at some point.

A guy can dream can't he?

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To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

I think you are spot on Taigh.
If the C-2 gets recovered by Mr Allen, this will go a long way towards allowing recovery of the Lexington artifacts.
Mr Allens team have shown that they have the skill and resources.

He won't be doing this for free. I'm sure he has the clout to recover some for the good of the nation as well as for his own significant collection.
This seems like way too good an opportunity to just let these artifacts sit at the bottom of the sea.

Andy

Trust me, after 5 years of working across the street from Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit Two (MDSU-2) , USS Grapple and USS Grasp and seen the things theyve brought up from the bottom. The U.S. Navy has plenty of EXPERTS. ☺

Shay
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SEMPER FORTIS

No doubt that the Navy has the capability but it's all about funding. In this day and age do you really think that they would or could use government funding to go after anything like this? Not in my view. If they did then they would have gone after other TBD's or who knows what else. The only way I see this working is with private resources working together for a common goal.

Kind of like asking NASA to go back to the moon to retrieve the lunar rover for the NASM. Sure they could do it but the private sector will be able to do it for a half a percent of what the government can do it for. Starman will swing by on his way back from Mars in the Tesla and take some selfies in a few years.

The Helldiver in San Diego that Jerry mentioned was in Pensacola's backyard so Tarras was the obvious choice. I would bet that they has a sponsor for that recovery. Like most museum's, the NMUSNA can't be overflowing with funds and certainly cannot come close to mounting such a mission. I recall that the first two Wildcats out of Lake Michigan so long ago were sold to pay for the recovery effort for them and other aircraft for the Navy. They were sold as projects for $200,000 each first come first served. And there was quite a foot race to get there!

I have not heard of any recovered WWII aircraft since these two, that have had a transfer of title from the Navy. I could be wrong but I believe that sponsors fund the recovery and restoration in order to have the aircraft on display in their museum but the title remains with the Navy. Things aren't like they used to be as far as trades are concerned. It can literally take an act of congress to make things happen these days. Something that Mr. Allen likely has the resources and desire to accomplish. If it excites him then there is no limit as to what can be put toward making it happen. The Petrel is a good example of this excitement as is the Stratolaunch and the ME-262 and the....

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'