If only just a few of these "birdcage" corsairs ...

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7822

... could have been saved. Date and location unknown, but I'd guess it was somewhere stateside 1945.

US Navy Fighter Depot F6F Hellcat F4F F4U by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr

Clifford Bossie · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:14 pm

I wish I could have one of the Wildcats as well!

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7822

I understand this to be NAS Jacksonville FLA

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7822

NAS Jacksonville, January 1944

marine air · **Posted:** Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:28 am

A thought that has been on my mind and yes it costs money: The U.S. Navy would be well served to retrieve all those Wildcats, Dauntlesses, and Avengers on the floor of Lake Michigan. Maybe have one contract to retrieve them all for the lowest cost per airframe . The Navy could then make these airframes available to qualifying museums , not for ownership but say, a 100 year lease. This thought came to my mind as real estate on airports now is typically leased , not sold to private owners and corporations. Preferably flying museums like the CAF and Collings Foundation.

The Navy would be well served to do this as in a few years they are going to run short of Navy aircraft to fly the Heritage Flights and represent them at airshows and public events. There's going to be a time where private owners simply won't risk their aircraft or want them being flown too far away from their home base. Imagine if 30 wildcats and Dauntlesses were assigned to Healthy CAF squadrons for rebuild. In time, the Navy would be well represented at these public events. The govt. spends millions on recruiting, and marketing. The flag unfurling thing they do at the NFL games is something like $150k per game per stadium, lasts only 10 minutes and is highly controversial at the moment.

It's time for the U.S. Navy to do a mass retrieval of all WW II airframes on the floor of Lake Michigan. These airframes could be released not sold to the public with 100 year leases (or 50), and for the cost of retrieval. They could be restored to fly, or exchanged to put other types back in the air. The amount of U.S> Navy? Marine aircraft available for the public to see will increease dramatically and helps with recruiting for the military. Everyone wins.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7822

Main reason that will never happen? Not enough mass interest, not enough financial return for all parties involved, except perhaps for whomever would be contracted to salvage. Logistical downside larger than the financial upside. Single salvage endeavors by folks with deep pockets, lots of time and a clear sense of how and when to deal with US Navy beaurocray is the only realistic chance any more aircraft will see sunshine. FWIW

airnutz · **Posted:** Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:36 am

Are these Brewster "Battlers" or Vought "Corsairs"? Or a mix of both? I'm thinking the canopy with the rear-view mirror bulge makes these Voughts. I don't recall if there is an external way to tell the difference.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Mark Allen M wrote:

NAS Jacksonville, January 1944

I was going to suggest a Navy base somewhere down south. Those look like southern pine trees and you can see a checkerboard water tower just above the treeline. Someone with better knowledge can correct me but isn't the checkerboard pattern for towers a military airfield thing???

OD/NG · **Joined:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm **Posts:** 750

At least we'll get to see one flying in the not-too-distant-future.

John Dupre · **Posted:** Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:44 pm

marine air wrote:

A thought that has been on my mind and yes it costs money: The U.S. Navy would be well served to retrieve all those Wildcats, Dauntlesses, and Avengers on the floor of Lake Michigan. Maybe have one contract to retrieve them all for the lowest cost per airframe . The Navy could then make these airframes available to qualifying museums , not for ownership but say, a 100 year lease. This thought came to my mind as real estate on airports now is typically leased , not sold to private owners and corporations. Preferably flying museums like the CAF and Collings Foundation.

The Navy allowed it once already. Are there any easily retrievable airframes left? I understand that in some areas the conditions on the bottom are so corrosive with pollution on the bottom that there is very little left of the airframes wrecked there. In one case where they went to investigate an inverted wreck the only thing left was the landing gear legs sticking out of the muck.

marine air · **Posted:** Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:14 am

Well, we covered this topic with the last President, Secretary of the Navy, and his administration. My thought was, with the new administration, maybe someone can get to a person that can make this happen.
Lets say there are 70 airframes with some of them too damaged or not of great enough value. (the SNJ-5C's) Maybe 40 out of 70 are not too far gone. Dauntleses, Wildcats and maybe a few Avengers. When we last discussed this a flyable Dauntless was maybe $2 million, a Wildcat $600k, and a TBM about $225K. An SNJ-5C say $225K properly restored. Today in 2017 a Dauntless flyable is $3 to $5 million (who knows?), a Wildcat $700k to $1.mill., and Avengers are fetching $450k. SNJ's are still $225K.
Let's say the cost to retrieve an individual example is now a total cost of $300k and maybe one is being raised every 18 months or so. Let's say a retrieval costs for 40 airframes brings the cost down to $190K, or $7.6 million. What would a 50 year lease of one of these planes be worth? I don't know but will use a low number of 200% or $380K. The D of D is sending 2 or $3 million per week to do the NFL home game giant flag roll out every home game. They could drop the controversial spending and recoup their investment from retreiving their treasure in less than a month. plus they could sell the leases for at least twice the cost of retrieving them.
Bringing 40 historic airtifacts, many of them combat veterans, to the surface and releasing to the public will bring many more Navy/ Marine type aircraft back into flying status and increase the number available for public display, Heritage flights, etc.
Many kids, including myself, got the bug to join the military (Marines) after seeing some of these aircraft up close and personal. The first real warbird I ever saw was a Wildcat in a hangar and later a P-51D.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7822

More stuff that's no longer.

Marine F4U and F6F Boneyard, Bougainville '44 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Marine F4U and F6F Boneyard, Bougainville 1944

Boneyard of American Aircraft on Munda Field 1944 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Boneyard of American Aircraft on Munda Airfield 1944

459th Fighter Squadron P-38 Wreck in India 1945 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
459th Fighter Squadron P-38 Wreck in India 1945

Birdcage Corsair wreck by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Birdcage Corsair wreck

DOUGLAS DAUNTLESS D-8 BOMBERS ~ MINDANAO, PHILLIPINES-1945-3 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
DOUGLAS DAUNTLESS's ~ MINDANAO, PHILLIPINES-1945

The wrecks of B-17 Flying Fortresses of the 390th Bomb Group, salvaged for parts by the Luftwaffe in a bombed out hangar near Paris. by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
The wrecks of B-17 Flying Fortresses of the 390th Bomb Group, salvaged for parts by the Luftwaffe in a bombed out hangar near Paris.

Scrap yard by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Scrapyard in Europe with both German & American planes.

Wrecked aircraft at Clark Field, Luzon, Philippines 1945-1946 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Wrecked aircraft at Clark Field, Luzon, Philippines 1945-1946

1945 GUAM, USAAF aircraft Photo Pile of US Airplane wrecks, bone yard by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
1945 GUAM, USAAF aircraft Photo Pile of US Airplane wrecks, bone yard

First B-29 on Iwo Jima by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
B-29 wreckage on Iwo Jima c 1945

Photo No27 … no date by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
View of plane dump at Nadzab c 1946

AIRCRAFT BONEYARD by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
AIRCRAFT BONEYARD GUAM Post-WWII 1946

AIRCRAFT BONEYARD GUAM Post-WWII 1946 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
AIRCRAFT BONEYARD GUAM Post-WWII 1946

AIRCRAFT BONEYARD GUAM Post-WWII 1946-2 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
AIRCRAFT BONEYARD GUAM Post-WWII 1946

Douglas MacArthur & 43rd Infantry Division, Japanese Aircraft Wrecks, Clark 45 by Central Repository for Aviation Photos, on Flickr
Douglas MacArthur & 43rd Infantry Division, Japanese Aircraft Wrecks, Clark Field 1945

Clifford Bossie · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:32 pm

That last one with Mac is cool, my dad was in the 43rd ID.

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:00 am

Great collection of photos, Mark

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If only just a few of these "birdcage" corsairs ...

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