Warbird Information Exchange

Static Meteor in Chino.

I personally would love to see an early jet display. I think it would be popular!

Me-262
P-80
Vampire
Meteor
P-59

I agree. And if that was displayed at POF, you could add the He-162 in there as well!

Martin Baker have 2, Classic Air Force had 2, the T7 and NF.11 and Temora have their F.8. As far as I'm aware these are the only airworthy Meteors.

I remember that Meteor at Mojave with the birdcage canopy. I saw it there at the races in '79.

I also remember Air Classics did a story on it, along with the ex-Paul Mantz Vampires.

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remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

POF used to have that. Remember their "jet hangar" they used to have in one of the old hangars to the west of their compound? They closed it around the time they opened the Valle branch and some planes up there. I can't recall if they got the Meteor before they closed that exhibit but they had all the other types you listed plus the Fireball and some of the later jets like the F9F. The Vampire was an ex-RCAF Mk.3 and not the Mk.6 they display now. Maybe the exhibit wasn't popular enough. Now they have what they call the "jet/racer" hangar which still holds most of those assets.

It would be a fun thing, though, if they towed the pre-1950 jets out and lined them up for an event, starting with the He 178 mockup.

August

I'd book my airline ticket now if I saw that on the schedule. There was also the Panther that flew in the 1980's? up by Livermore, CA perhaps?

Think taking the plug out or a T-33, and new canopy would be the easiest way to get a close enough P/F-80.

I too remember the Meteor at Mojave- very interesting canopy. My Dad and I would fly there from Oxnard for the $100 cheeseburger. What a great ramp to kick tires on.

The ones I listed are easy, the P-59 has been nearly finished for many years and a P-80 couldn't be that hard considering the commonality with the T-33 (though I could be wrong).

The He-162 was for sale a while back and would require a major rebuild- likely a new wooden wing and fuselage, not to mention an engine swap.

That would make for a fantastic PoF airshow! And with the possible exception of the P-80 it could be eminently doable in the not too distant future. Speaking of the P-80, it still blows my mind that we do not have a single flyable example of that airplane anywhere. That or a straight wing F-84 would be at the top of my list were I to ever hit the lotto.

There's a forlorn P-80 project sitting outside collecting dust at Yanks Air Museum, Chino. One of the few in private hands. Maybe it would be possible to scale down the size of a T-33 canopy on the T-33. In other words, whatever percent of size increase the T-33 is to the P-80, make a canopy that corresponds in size.
Look at all the different canopies on the Sea Fury models for example. If you remove the tip tanks then it would be a slightly oversized P-80.

I seem to recall that a P/F-80 look alike from a T-33 would be rather straightforward, as the main fuselage plug (26+ inches) right in the middle of cockpit section is a constant diameter plug, meaning the rivets could be drilled out and the now shorter fuselage could be re-mated together with not a great deal of structural rework. Walk up to a T-33 and you can clearly see the plug. The rear fuselage also has a shorter 12 inch plug, which could likely be ignored as "close enough" (except by us panel/rivet counters of course). Then you would need the P/F-80 canopy, and proper wing tips. I believe several have mulled this approach....

Would love to see a 80 (or clone) fly.

POF has a P-80 as well, so two right at Chino Airport.

The Meteor is a neat aircraft, and none are flying now. The big issue on Jets being fun/usable, is to answer the question "is there is a second seat". A historic plane. But outside the general interest of most.

Thread Creep

P-80's are rare, it is true, and none fly, the last one probably being a Chilean one in 1974. There are around 24 worldwide, and while that seems like a good number, only two are actually privately owned. That means they are the only two flyer candidates. Further most are outside and are in poor condition. When the USAF had the last 60 or so T-33 destroyed in Tucson in 2007, that went the last truly decent supply of wings and parts to support military restorations of T-33 or P-80 airframes. As far as civilian parts, the T-33 remains a parts plentiful aircraft with low demand.

But it begs the question, why not restore an 80' ?

Well its a tremendously historic plane, with the USAF putting the aircraft into the fight in Korea very early. and making the first USAF jet to jet kill for real when a Mig-15 fell to Russel J. Brown's guns. Five more Mig-15s lost everything to the P-80, but the swept wing Sabre was more of an equal, and handled the offensive air to air role. The USAF put the F-80C and RF-80 into service to help boots on the ground, and during 1951-53 the USAF at peak was losing the equivalent aircraft of one squadron per month to ground fire. One squadron of aircraft per month. m That is part of the rarity reason....Then as drones, and finally as export fighters. Also parts are similar to the T-33, so commonality led to consumption. The T-33 was far more valuable as a trainer in 1955 than the P-80 was as a fighter. Remember the T-33 was known as a TF-80C, so even the wing is a direct swap. All of them in service after about 1955 got "Fletcher" tanks, and so as parts were needed, the P-80's gave them up and faded away.....

To restore one would be wonderful, but the interest isn't there yet. The Stored and static P-80/F-80's with Korean combat history are unknown, and when in a decade or so it is discovered that a forlorn corroded P-80 is actually a Mig Killer or something of that sort...will she be savable? What are the P-80 mig killer serial numbers? The DFC mission aircraft ect...? Also it may be a good time to remind everyone that the T-33 was there too...and several were lost in combat in the transition/training role while dropping bombs. Historic stuff.

As far as modifying a T-33, why? It wont have the value of an 80' and it won't be an 80. Nobody on the net will ever let the owner forget it. Look at the beautiful Mustang and Spitfire restorations that are presented to the public to have some wag on the net post..."so how much is actually even original in that mustang or is it a replica...?" Tough to hear after 4.0 has been spent building your C model...And how many travel to see the Me-262 flying in Texas, or others? The jet "critical airshow mass" isn't here yet. Imagine the fun of building a real 80' after years of work to have someone yell from the ropes about how you "just cut up" some Trainer and its "not even a real jet...." (Why pilots aren't allowed to carry guns.)

A P-80 can be restored from a wreck, especially with a lot of T-33 donor help. I wish it was a matter of time, but the fact is that a T-33 is everything the P-80 is, without the history, and faster. Watch Greg Colyer's Acemaker on youtube, its an awesome jet and incidentally is the most popular warbird act in the country. Thats right, the most successful warbird act in the USA is a T-33. Would Acemaker be great in a Shooting Star? You Bet! But its a truth that a jet is a bit different than a piston bird...and its all gotta be built really strong. To build an 80 from a T-33 is not just removing a plug, but crating all new structure keels and longerons to hold that mighty thing together at many G's of force. The Acemaker display is very high energy, and if you realize the forces involved, an idea of a "simple" replica is nothing of the kind.

Its important to save the static 80's we have, and force the USAFM to bring them inside until we truly know what we have. Someday, perhaps. But for now support your local T-33!!!

WA591 is a beauty, sorry to see her leaving the UK:


Meteor WA591 Duxford Jubilee Show 2012 (4) by stu norris, on Flickr


Meteor WA591 Duxford Jubilee Show 2012 (5) by stu norris, on Flickr


Meteor WA591 by stu norris, on Flickr


Meteor WA591 The Victory Show 2015 by stu norris, on Flickr

This one, right? (Double exposed, unfortunately, but it's all I have)

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

N94749 is a TT.20 and was traded or donated to the USAFM or the Edwards FTC Museum, not sure if they are different entities. Her registration was cancelled in 1994, so I think the last Meteor to fly in the USA was this one in 1993 or so.