P-51 Market analysis

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

Might have been loose wording by the author "solo" might have meant in the command seat. Or maybe it was legal back in the 60's 70's - I wouldn't know.

RacingMustang · **Posted:** Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:41 am

fiftycal wrote:

RacingMustang wrote:

I don't see prices coming down ever, really. And if they do, it'll be because they're no longer flyable due to insurance regulations, liability, public image, pilot shortage, or the fuel going away. Every one of those is a real possibility and could single-handedly destroy the warbird world.

It is a bit frustrating for a young guy like me, willing to work. I fly tailwheel airplanes, but everything's so darn expensive, and so frustratingly elusive and exclusive. You literally have to be born into the world or have started in the 60s (back when they were cheap) in order to fly anything these days. Or have a load of money to burn. I don't grudge any of these people any of that - good for them! - but it's frustrating when they complain about lack of "young blood" and "up and coming pilots" when they act the way they do. Just go to Oshkosh...they won't even talk to you most of the time.

Which is why I'm slowly putting together plans to build/restore a P-51...it might never happen, but it has a heck of a lot more chance of happening than me getting to fly anything out there right now. And I'm fine with that. There's more to life than warbirds.

do you want some 51 parts kits? (sheet metal)

PM sent....

Stephan Wilkinson · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am **Posts:** 699

Quote:

Might have been loose wording by the author "solo" might have meant in the command seat. Or maybe it was legal back in the 60's 70's - I wouldn't know.

Lt. Col. William F. Smith Jr., who flew a B-25 into the Empire State Building on 28 July 1945, was not only soloing that airplane but it was only the second time he'd ever flown a B-25. The first time--two days earlier--he'd also soloed it. A classic Ace of the Base, Smith was an arrogant pilot, a ring-knocker who figured he could fly anything with wings and then fly the box it came in. That attitude took him straight into the side of a Manhattan skyscraper and incinerated 11 people in the building, two military hitchhikers in his B-25, and himself. If there ever was an accident attributable to Pilot Stupidity, this was it.

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

Well I'm not going to argue about what the author said regarding flying Burchinall's B-25. We don't really know what he meant by that statement though you certainly could take it at face value. That wasn't the point of my post.

The two points of my post were:

1) At least for me - ownership isn't really the goal: soloing a P-51 is the dream/desire. But insurance and other factors limit those opportunities, and

2) That there was a time, back in the day, where one could solo a Mustang and other airplanes, for $1800 dollars (1971 dollars) and insurance didn't interfere. Adjusting for inflation, that's $10,973 dollars in today's money.

There could be some discussion as to whether the training program - as briefly listed in the article - allowed you to safely fly a Mustang for one or two hours, over flat terrain. But I can't attest to Burchinall's skills as an instructor, and we don't really know the deep details of the training program.

CH2Tdriver · **Posted:** Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:21 am

Speeddemon651 wrote:

Unless you already own a G model

Nice! So in comparison, what are the acquisition, operating and maintenance costs of owning/operating a T-6? Seems like it is a more attainable goal. Then there is always the possibility that once you build enough time, meet the right people, you will be asked if you want to upgrade to something bigger as pilots are needed?

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:50 am

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

It hasn't always been that way.

RobC · **Posted:** Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:48 pm

Randy Haskin wrote:

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

It hasn't always been that way.

There was no such thing as a BFR, LOA, or high performance endorsement in 1971, either. In fact, before his accident, Jimmy Leward was more famous for flying a B-17 solo across the country as a teenager. I know someone who soloed his Bearcat as a 90 hour student pilot. It was legal because his instructor endorsed his logbook.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:22 pm

$1800 to learn, but the plane cost a bit more (even when it was on sale for 20k off):

(From Leon's Trade-A-Plane scrapbook

)

Pogo · **Posted:** Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:58 pm

Good heavens - this thread is getting more interesting by the post!! :shock:

cwmc · **Joined:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:43 am **Posts:** 322

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

They were single seaters back then like the A-26 unless they were TB-25N's I think, Brandon. Those were pretty open times.
Chris...

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

Randy Haskin wrote:

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

It hasn't always been that way.

When did the Type Rating requirement for aircraft over 12,500# come into being?

OD/NG · **Joined:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm **Posts:** 750

cwmc wrote:

bdk wrote:

It isn't legal to fly a B-25 solo.

They were single seaters back then like the A-26 unless they were TB-25N's I think, Brandon. Those were pretty open times.
Chris...

The only production B-25's that were single seat/single controls in the cockpit were the "H" models. Every other production version, including the post war Hayes mods, were dual seat, dual control.

sandiego89 · **Joined:** Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm **Posts:** 1200

While on the subject of single pilot, what are some of the largest warbirds that normally operated with a single pilot?

UK: Lancaster
US: P-61, A-3.....?

OD/NG · **Joined:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm **Posts:** 750

sandiego89 wrote:

While on the subject of single pilot, what are some of the largest warbirds that normally operated with a single pilot?

UK: Lancaster
US: P-61, A-3.....?

A-20, F7F Tigercat, most versions of the Mosquito, many German and Japanese night fighters, , etc.

Are there any other examples of a 4 engine aircraft in operational service during W.W.II that had only 1 pilot besides the Lancaster? Any one know?

Firebird · **Posted:** Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:45 pm

OD/NG wrote:

sandiego89 wrote:

While on the subject of single pilot, what are some of the largest warbirds that normally operated with a single pilot?

UK: Lancaster
US: P-61, A-3.....?

A-20, F7F Tigercat, most versions of the Mosquito, many German and Japanese night fighters, , etc.

Are there any other examples of a 4 engine aircraft in operational service during W.W.II that had only 1 pilot besides the Lancaster? Any one know?

Handley-Page Halifax was single pilot like the Lancaster.

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