Kyushu Shinden and Kikka on display at Udvar Hazy

[old iron]

The forward fuselage of the Kyushu Shinden is now on display at Udvar Hazy. The Kikka has also been moved from the Baker restoration are to the display area.

http://447.insidetrackmagazine.com/wwii-aircraft/wwii-japan/kyushu-j7w1-shinden/

I hope this suggests that other aircraft are being moved out of Garber.

[tom d. friedman]

??? i thought the shinden was already restored..... is there a 2nd example?? as for the kikka, i've heard nothing ever.

[sandiego89]

I hope this suggests that other aircraft are being moved out of Garber.

Pogo and Sageburner F-4 please!

Thanks for posting

[Stephan Wilkinson]

The NASM is fascinated by utterly inconsequential aircraft like the Shinden, Kikka, Seiran and various Luftwaffe wonderweapons. These are for the most part near-vaporware aircraft that played virtually no part in World War II and really didn't advance the state of the aeronautical art. (Okay, the Kikka maybe, but the Germans went vastly farther with the Me-262 that engendered it, and the NASM already has one of those.) It would be nice if they restored some of the truly important aircraft that are stored in their barns, including some major civil ones, and got off the flying-circus kick.

[sandiego89]

The NASM is fascinated by utterly inconsequential aircraft like the Shinden, Kikka, Seiran and various Luftwaffe wonderweapons. These are for the most part near-vaporware aircraft that played virtually no part in World War II and really didn't advance the state of the aeronautical art. (Okay, the Kikka maybe, but the Germans went vastly farther with the Me-262 that engendered it, and the NASM already has one of those.) It would be nice if they restored some of the truly important aircraft that are stored in their barns, including some major civil ones, and got off the flying-circus kick.

Hmmm, I guess you gotta put me down as part of your "flying-circus" crowd. I am utterly fascinated by the sole survivors, ultra-rare and and some of these could have beens at places like Udvar Hazy. I will go out of my way to see things like the Ar-234 and the Serian and I admit to a fascination with them being sole survivors and their history and the desperation of war. Yes I know they didn't change history, but they just ooze with the story they tell. I will walk right past a more common aircraft to see something I have only seen in a history book.

We all have our favorites and opinions and that is fine, and we often scratch our heads at their priority list, but I for one am glad that the NASM has had a soft spot for some of these one-offs.

[DaveM2]

The NASM is fascinated by utterly inconsequential aircraft like the Shinden, Kikka, Seiran and various Luftwaffe wonderweapons. These are for the most part near-vaporware aircraft that played virtually no part in World War II and really didn't advance the state of the aeronautical art. (Okay, the Kikka maybe, but the Germans went vastly farther with the Me-262 that engendered it, and the NASM already has one of those.) It would be nice if they restored some of the truly important aircraft that are stored in their barns, including some major civil ones, and got off the flying-circus kick.

Hmmm, I guess you gotta put me down as part of your "flying-circus" crowd. I am utterly fascinated by the sole survivors, ultra-rare and and some of these could have beens at places like Udvar Hazy. I will go out of my way to see things like the Ar-234 and the Serian and I admit to a fascination with them being sole survivors and their history and the desperation of war. Yes I know they didn't change history, but they just ooze with the story they tell. I will walk right past a more common aircraft to see something I have only seen in a history book.

We all have our favorites and opinions and that is fine, and we often scratch our heads at their priority list, but I for one am glad that the NASM has had a soft spot for some of these one-offs.

Totally agree, let's see artifacts that are not represented anywhere else (or very rarely) instead of 'more of the same' types (individual historical significance aside). Plenty of other museums world wide which don't have the fascinating point of difference NASM does.

[Jesse C.]

Yes, civilian aviation has some pretty cool stuff, but, it can be pretty boring stuff. I am warbird type and I like the Circus planes as they are more interesting and just flat out cool!

How can you compare something that hauled the mail to something that may have changed a war? You can't!

[Stephan Wilkinson]

NASM stands for National Air and Space Museum, not National Air and Space Show. A museum, as defined by Webster's, is "a location in which objects of scientific, historical, cultural or artistic interest are stored." I don't see the words "flat out cool" anywhere.

[C VEICH]

I don't believe that the NASM has any obligation to conform its operations to some dictionary definition of what a "museum" is supposed to be.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

As a taxpayer-funded national museum, it has a considerable variety of obligations.

[StangStung]

As a taxpayer-funded national museum, it has a considerable variety of obligations.

It is administered by the government, which costs money, but a lot of the money comes from private sources. That's the whole reason Udvar-Hazy exists and often why some restorations may become more "important" than others. But that's an aside.

Further to your point - what would you have them work on that they aren't working on? Currently, they're putting Flak-Bait back together and working on the Sikorsky that was at Pearl Harbor - both very significant AMERICAN aircraft. If that's your criteria, are they not meeting that? Other recent significant restorations of AMERICAN aircraft include the SB2C and the C-121.

From what I've seen, while they have the rare birds out for viewing, it doesn't appear to me that they are high on the priority list. Rather, it appears more to me a case of "We can store these at Garber, or we can store them where people can see them. Let's do the later."

And if they bring in more viewers (viewers = money), as odd-ducks are rare birds are want to do, doesn't that help the overall mission of the museum? I understand your concern, but it seems to me a little overstated and perhaps a little short sighted. Sure, we'd love to see all the NASM's planes done NOW. But if they want to pull a few out of storage to drive visits, I for one have no problem with that. I've been several times, but I'm much more likely to stop by if there's some new tidbit like this I can see, rather than wait 10 years (or whatever it may be) for Flak-Bait or the next in line, to be finished.

Last edited by StangStung on Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

[StangStung]

By the way, thanks for posting the Shinden and Kikka pics! Love seeing something I haven't seen in a while/in a new context!

[sandiego89]

Well I think the Serian, Ar-234, Do235, Ohka, Me-163, Shinden etc. are all quite "scientific and historic" and again I would much rather see these than other aircraft I can see elsewhere. When I go the UH or the main museum on the mall (or other museums) I will walk right past a mail carrier, the golden age aircraft or a P-51 to see some of these rare aircraft. I am the same way at airshow- some folks love to see a F-16 and P-51, but I have seen these all before and I would rather see something more obscure that I have never seen- like the Mosquito that Jerry Yagen restored- it created quite a buzz and I was glad to see it in fly in person. Rarity has a quality all its own.

Again we each have our favorites- I find civil, WWI, and golden age generally pretty boring, but I get others disagree- and I would never criticize others for their tastes- heck I like trash haulers among other things.... Many love to knock the NASM for the choices they make (perhaps most loudly for not having a B-17 at the main museum) but I think they have done a commendable job at representing history AND generating interest. "Wonder weapons" tend to generate a lot of interest, but I get it if it does not float your boat. A mail plane and P-51 is not going to get folks like me in the doors- and I agree with StangStung that a slow but steady release from Garber helps keep interest up and repeat visitors.

[StangStung]

Here's the legislation that originated the museum, signed by Harry Truman in August 1946 (20 USC 77(a) if you're interested):

"The national air and space museum shall memorialize the national development of aviation and space flight; collect, preserve, and display aeronautical and space flight equipment of historical interest and significance; serve as a repository for scientific equipment and data pertaining to the development of aviation and space flight; and provide educational material for the historical study of aviation and space flight."

Looks to me that "equipment of historical interest" is a pretty broad mission that would include all the war booty of WWII.

[JohnB]

I agree with Mr. Wilkinson. They're fixated on the inconsequential.
Now that would be fine if their obsessions didn't mean moving other, more historic objects to the back of the line.

The fact they don't have a B-17 on display says it all.
They seem to have plenty of time and space to display oddities, but not enough to display something that was a large part of the national effort to win WWII. I'm referring to not / just the veterans, but also the thousands of Americans who designed, built and paid for the aircraft in the first place.

Before you say there are plenty of B-17s on display elsewhere, I'd suggest that one should be available to be seen by people going to the various other War monuments the nation's capital. Now that Yeagan has sold his, how far is the closest B-17 (not to mention B-24) to DC?