Afghan Hinds, Iraqi Furies, Hawk 75's and Kiwi Shagbats
Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:13 pm
Thought I would re-post these questions from another thread, as they seem to have got a little lost in the original one.
I wanted to enquire about the Hawker Hind airframes which have recently been discovered in Afghanistan. Guy Black seemed to have more information on them... was he the one who found them in the first place?
Does anyone know if there is a move afoot to recover these priceless relics? Are there any more details on the airframes themsleves, photographs?
Also, in the latest Classic Wings magazine, there was a brief mention that the Li-2 (Russian C-47 clone) which had been restored to flying condition in Eastern Europe recently (and was about to head out to Oshkosh) crashed killing several of those on board. I have seen no mention of this sad tragedy anywhere else. Does anyone know what happened?
What about the rumours that one of the Iraqi Furies is back in the UK... any further news there?
On another note, does anyone have details on the Curtiss Hawk 75 which TFC have had restored. I've seen several articles in various magazines about it, but they all say pretty much the same thing, and show the current status photos (which are great!). However, I'd love to see more information (photos?) on its provenance, as well as how it came to be hidden so effectively from the public limelight for the past fifty years, when it had been storage at various places for much of that time, rather than lost in a scrapyard, or jungle somewhere.
Finally, does anyone have any further details on the proposed purchase, and restoration of Dick Melton's Supermarine Walrus by a New Zealand-based syndicate.... is this one for real?
Cheers,
Richard
I wanted to enquire about the Hawker Hind airframes which have recently been discovered in Afghanistan. Guy Black seemed to have more information on them... was he the one who found them in the first place?
Does anyone know if there is a move afoot to recover these priceless relics? Are there any more details on the airframes themsleves, photographs?
Also, in the latest Classic Wings magazine, there was a brief mention that the Li-2 (Russian C-47 clone) which had been restored to flying condition in Eastern Europe recently (and was about to head out to Oshkosh) crashed killing several of those on board. I have seen no mention of this sad tragedy anywhere else. Does anyone know what happened?
What about the rumours that one of the Iraqi Furies is back in the UK... any further news there?
On another note, does anyone have details on the Curtiss Hawk 75 which TFC have had restored. I've seen several articles in various magazines about it, but they all say pretty much the same thing, and show the current status photos (which are great!). However, I'd love to see more information (photos?) on its provenance, as well as how it came to be hidden so effectively from the public limelight for the past fifty years, when it had been storage at various places for much of that time, rather than lost in a scrapyard, or jungle somewhere.
Finally, does anyone have any further details on the proposed purchase, and restoration of Dick Melton's Supermarine Walrus by a New Zealand-based syndicate.... is this one for real?
Cheers,
Richard
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:04 am
Richard
There is some detail on the Hawk on the TFC site
http://www.fighter-collection.com/hawk/
Several people from here have visiting it before they headed to Oshkosh, including the owner of the ex Finnish example, so I hope to get more info when they return.
The crash of the Li-2 claimed the lives of several on board, I believe all were members of the group that operated the aircraft. Seems they were on test flight when they lost power , the pilot attempted to turn the aircraft away from several houses, but one wing hit one of the roofs causing the plane to crash. I think no one in the houses was injured. A sad lost to the young Russian Historic Aviation scene
Re the Hinds / Iraqi Furies...I think Indiana Tony is best qualified to comment on them, and Harold Mulder said he just returned from the area
so may have some info on the Hinds
Shagbat will surely comment on the Walrus....
Dave
There is some detail on the Hawk on the TFC site
http://www.fighter-collection.com/hawk/
Several people from here have visiting it before they headed to Oshkosh, including the owner of the ex Finnish example, so I hope to get more info when they return.
The crash of the Li-2 claimed the lives of several on board, I believe all were members of the group that operated the aircraft. Seems they were on test flight when they lost power , the pilot attempted to turn the aircraft away from several houses, but one wing hit one of the roofs causing the plane to crash. I think no one in the houses was injured. A sad lost to the young Russian Historic Aviation scene
Re the Hinds / Iraqi Furies...I think Indiana Tony is best qualified to comment on them, and Harold Mulder said he just returned from the area
so may have some info on the Hinds
Shagbat will surely comment on the Walrus....
Dave
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:51 am
Richard,
The latest Flypast carries this news snippet about the Li-2 crash
"On June 26, Lisunov Li-2T RA-1300K crashed into a house near Zaozerye, Russia, killing both pilots and a passenger. Two others on board escaped and there were no casualties on the ground. The transport, a licence-built Douglas DC-3, was operated by the Global Edge group and had just taken off from Moskva-Myachkovo airport."
There was another snippet in last months edition about the Iraqi Fury stating that it is definately in the UK, but that was all.
Hope this is useful
The latest Flypast carries this news snippet about the Li-2 crash
"On June 26, Lisunov Li-2T RA-1300K crashed into a house near Zaozerye, Russia, killing both pilots and a passenger. Two others on board escaped and there were no casualties on the ground. The transport, a licence-built Douglas DC-3, was operated by the Global Edge group and had just taken off from Moskva-Myachkovo airport."
There was another snippet in last months edition about the Iraqi Fury stating that it is definately in the UK, but that was all.
Hope this is useful
RAF Hawker Hinds & Royal Afghan Air Force
Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:18 am
I'm afraid I missed your earlier enquiry. I did see the separate and later L7180 enquiry, and replied in part re L7180 and L7181. See
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... bb3235a32a
Looking purely from the perspective of 211 (Bomber) Squadron RAF, the Sqn took a number of Hawker Hinds to the Middle East in April 1938, converting to the Bristol Blenheim perhaps between April and July 1939 (accounts vary).
The Hawker Hinds known to have been on 211 Sqn charge or used by them in the Middle East over the period April 1938 to approx Jul 1939 included:
K5389, K5409, K5430, K5456, K5457 (AO-M), K5458, K5477, K5484, K5520, K5554, K6618, K6642, K6696, K6832, K6833 (211, later AO-N), K6835, K6842, K6851, K6853, K6854, K6855, L7174, L7175, L7180, L7181
Relinquished by 2111 Sqn on conversion, a number of their Hinds were subsequently sold to the Royal Afghan Air Force in 1939:
K5409 (no date)
K5457 (Jul 39)
K5554 ("Transferred", no date)
K6832 (Jul 39)
K6842 (Jul 39)
K6853 (Jul 39)
K6855 (Jul 39)
L7180 (Jul 39) (National Aviation Museum, Canada)
L7181 (Jul 39) ( Aero Vintage/Historic Aircraft Collection Guy Black & Co)
In addition:
K5477 sold to Indian Govt Apr 39
K6618 "
K6696 "
K6833 "
Sources: 211 Sqn Logbook and photos of G Grierson (by kind permission of Mike Grierson). Air Britain K File and Serials L1000-N9999.
My 211 Squadron website update on 31 Jul will carry these details, in the mean time here's the link:
Hawker Audax and Hind
http://members.aardvark.net.au/clardo/audax___hind.html
Details may be incomplete, & it is possible that other aircraft from other Sqns were involved. Further checking is in hand and where relevant to 211 Sqn will be published on site when available
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... bb3235a32a
Looking purely from the perspective of 211 (Bomber) Squadron RAF, the Sqn took a number of Hawker Hinds to the Middle East in April 1938, converting to the Bristol Blenheim perhaps between April and July 1939 (accounts vary).
The Hawker Hinds known to have been on 211 Sqn charge or used by them in the Middle East over the period April 1938 to approx Jul 1939 included:
K5389, K5409, K5430, K5456, K5457 (AO-M), K5458, K5477, K5484, K5520, K5554, K6618, K6642, K6696, K6832, K6833 (211, later AO-N), K6835, K6842, K6851, K6853, K6854, K6855, L7174, L7175, L7180, L7181
Relinquished by 2111 Sqn on conversion, a number of their Hinds were subsequently sold to the Royal Afghan Air Force in 1939:
K5409 (no date)
K5457 (Jul 39)
K5554 ("Transferred", no date)
K6832 (Jul 39)
K6842 (Jul 39)
K6853 (Jul 39)
K6855 (Jul 39)
L7180 (Jul 39) (National Aviation Museum, Canada)
L7181 (Jul 39) ( Aero Vintage/Historic Aircraft Collection Guy Black & Co)
In addition:
K5477 sold to Indian Govt Apr 39
K6618 "
K6696 "
K6833 "
Sources: 211 Sqn Logbook and photos of G Grierson (by kind permission of Mike Grierson). Air Britain K File and Serials L1000-N9999.
My 211 Squadron website update on 31 Jul will carry these details, in the mean time here's the link:
Hawker Audax and Hind
http://members.aardvark.net.au/clardo/audax___hind.html
Details may be incomplete, & it is possible that other aircraft from other Sqns were involved. Further checking is in hand and where relevant to 211 Sqn will be published on site when available
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:44 am
Dave, John, and Don,
Thanks very much for your responses, it was good to see more. I found the photograph of the Hawk 75 from it's old storage location really interesting... it looks like there is a lot of original material in the restoration. Are there any more vintage photographs of the aircraft.
I was very sad to hear the details of the Li-2. I was looking forwards to seeing that aircraft here in the States. That they lost several people in the crash is truly awful, and it must be a real blow to the nacent warbird movement in Russia.
Don, the information you provided on the Hinds was really fascinating. The photographs of the Geoff Grierson collection were really unbelievable. I have never seen such a detailed study of life in prewar squadron service. Thanks very much for linking the site here for me!
That's what the WIX is all about, isn't it. The sharing of information is terrific!
Cheers,
Richard
Thanks very much for your responses, it was good to see more. I found the photograph of the Hawk 75 from it's old storage location really interesting... it looks like there is a lot of original material in the restoration. Are there any more vintage photographs of the aircraft.
I was very sad to hear the details of the Li-2. I was looking forwards to seeing that aircraft here in the States. That they lost several people in the crash is truly awful, and it must be a real blow to the nacent warbird movement in Russia.
Don, the information you provided on the Hinds was really fascinating. The photographs of the Geoff Grierson collection were really unbelievable. I have never seen such a detailed study of life in prewar squadron service. Thanks very much for linking the site here for me!
That's what the WIX is all about, isn't it. The sharing of information is terrific!
Cheers,
Richard
Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:18 pm
OK..here is a bit on the Walrus. A Canterbury (N.Z.) based group are carrying out a feasibility study to see whether it is possible to bring the potentially restorable Walrus to N.Z. Negotiations are underway with the owner. Planned restoration will take place under cover, possibly at RNZAFM, Wigram using only profesional and commercial engineering skills.
The Walrus will have dual flying controls and additional seating on board for 4 passengers. Water operations are very likely to be confined to fresh water lakes and not salt water. It will be operated on a non commercial bases under a warbird (experimental) reg. catergory. The Walrus project will be set up as an incorporated society which will own the aircraft on 'share' basis.
If anyone in N.Z is interested in supporting the project you can contact them at 'The NZ Walrus Project', PO Box 20-170, Christchurch, New Zealand.
Dave
The Walrus will have dual flying controls and additional seating on board for 4 passengers. Water operations are very likely to be confined to fresh water lakes and not salt water. It will be operated on a non commercial bases under a warbird (experimental) reg. catergory. The Walrus project will be set up as an incorporated society which will own the aircraft on 'share' basis.
If anyone in N.Z is interested in supporting the project you can contact them at 'The NZ Walrus Project', PO Box 20-170, Christchurch, New Zealand.
Dave