P-51 “Precious Metal” caught fire

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1672

Twelve minutes seems like a lot -- too much -- but I gather that this was at an enroute stop, and not at an Event.

Dave

andyman64 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:45 pm

fiftycal don,t comment when youknow nothing about what you speak!

andyman64 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:50 pm

from the pics it doesn,t appear too bad hopefully the damage was contained in front of the fire wall

JohnH · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:26 pm

Yes that's right , there's a great history on AAfo somewhere from a year ago.

RandolphB · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:40 pm

fiftycal wrote:

whats the big deal, he wrecked a perfectly good P-51 when he chopped it up like that anyway, hardly a "warbird"

It wasn't an existing aircraft. Center part of fuselage was a movie prop in Hollywood, tail off an "H", wing had been on a gate guard at one point. Wing got rebuilt at a gear up landing anyway. Everything firewall forward is custom made. Engine was literally in the Miss Budweiser Unlimited Hydrofoil. Props and nose case off a Shakelton. this plane has ZERO legacy as a warbird or anything else. For that matter, there doesn't seem to be very much actual Mustang stuff on the airframe anyway. It's just sort of shaped like one. A normal Mustang A & P would be lost on this thing......

Joe Scheil · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:52 pm

Gents,

This discussion has gone the wrong way. The "idea" that this was not a significant aircraft, or that this is "no big loss" for whatever reason is dead wrong. The aircraft that is Precious Metal is a Mustang in every sense of the word, and her history stems from both her North American design as well as the American know how that built her from scratch. Precious Metal was and is a "perfectly good" P-51, and while her "market" value stems from what is Mustang within her structure, she is significant in her own right. Will she survive as a racer or be modified or built into a stocker? Time will tell. But for those who long for "originality" would a conversion to a new TF-51 turn N6WJ into a worthwhile vintage airplane?

The racing "industry" is why we have arguments about originality and the percentage of in most of the surviving Mustangs. The reproduction of longerons and the ability to new build a Mustang structure was both required and fueled by racing. The related "state of the art" of Merlin engine rebuilding and the "bashing" of varied original engine configurations into the hybrid power plants flown for both racing and "warbirding" today are also "of racing".

Racing has always improved animals, people and machines, but through a painful process of breaking what is weak, and then going from there. The racing aircraft is a special bird, and Precious Metal is the longest lived Griffon Mustang ever. Her lineage is derived from both the .50 cal armed Mustang of WWII and the Blood Red RB-51 that is as iconic to aviation history as the Gee Bee of Jimmy Dolittle. Racing airplanes matter, they are priceless in a way and are very special examples of an almost vanished breed. Racing is history, and the exploits of civilian "racing" Mustangs are to me in some ways more important than the "paint scheme" history painted on planes today. There is a reason why the serial 44-10947 means very little to the history of Excalibur III. The postwar history, the innovation, daring and mettle of those who built that old warplane into the valiant machine that it is, allowed that red mustang to prove that the US could be struck from over the pole, and that polar air navigation, now commonplace, was possible. IN A FIGHTER! Amazing, and preserved by NASM.

I for one will always hope I win lotto. I sure would love to be the one to commission the rebirth of the RB-51 Red Baron (with permission) and park her next to a Super Corsair and Rare Bear and some of the other greats...

Precious Metal IS a P-51. Seeing her Griffon scream around the pylons was always Perfectly Good. Good luck in your racing next week Thom...and keep us posted

Lon Moer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:37 pm

Joe Scheil wrote:

Gents,

This discussion has gone the wrong way. The "idea" that this was not a significant aircraft, or that this is "no big loss" for whatever reason is dead wrong. The aircraft that is Precious Metal is a Mustang in every sense of the word, and her history stems from both her North American design as well as the American know how that built her from scratch. Precious Metal was and is a "perfectly good" P-51, and while her "market" value stems from what is Mustang within her structure, she is significant in her own right. Will she survive as a racer or be modified or built into a stocker? Time will tell. But for those who long for "originality" would a conversion to a new TF-51 turn N6WJ into a worthwhile vintage airplane?

The racing "industry" is why we have arguments about originality and the percentage of in most of the surviving Mustangs. The reproduction of longerons and the ability to new build a Mustang structure was both required and fueled by racing. The related "state of the art" of Merlin engine rebuilding and the "bashing" of varied original engine configurations into the hybrid power plants flown for both racing and "warbirding" today are also "of racing".

Racing has always improved animals, people and machines, but through a painful process of breaking what is weak, and then going from there. The racing aircraft is a special bird, and Precious Metal is the longest lived Griffon Mustang ever. Her lineage is derived from both the .50 cal armed Mustang of WWII and the Blood Red RB-51 that is as iconic to aviation history as the Gee Bee of Jimmy Dolittle. Racing airplanes matter, they are priceless in a way and are very special examples of an almost vanished breed. Racing is history, and the exploits of civilian "racing" Mustangs are to me in some ways more important than the "paint scheme" history painted on planes today. There is a reason why the serial 44-10947 means very little to the history of Excalibur III. The postwar history, the innovation, daring and mettle of those who built that old warplane into the valiant machine that it is, allowed that red mustang to prove that the US could be struck from over the pole, and that polar air navigation, now commonplace, was possible. IN A FIGHTER! Amazing, and preserved by NASM.

I for one will always hope I win lotto. I sure would love to be the one to commission the rebirth of the RB-51 Red Baron (with permission) and park her next to a Super Corsair and Rare Bear and some of the other greats...

Precious Metal IS a P-51. Seeing her Griffon scream around the pylons was always Perfectly Good. Good luck in your racing next week Thom...and keep us posted

well said. :wink:

Punisher05 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:14 am

Dave Hadfield wrote:

Twelve minutes seems like a lot -- too much -- but I gather that this was at an enroute stop, and not at an Event.

Dave

It is, Dave. At most of your bigger Part 139 (or airline-service) airports, the standard is for on-field Aircraft Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) crews to be able to reach the midpoint of the farthest runway and flow water within three minutes of a call--as demonstrated at Las Vegas this week. As a result they are also able to respond quickly to any ramp incidents or medicals.

However, that changes when you go to a smaller GA airport that does not have on-field firefighting capability. Any responding units have to get to the location to begin with, which takes a lot of time, and then they may not have some of the specialized equipment that we have to use on aircraft fuel fires. Regular water has a hard time with fuel fires, which is why on-field units use foam, but the typical off-airport crews only carry a small amount of foam for car fires and the like.

Either way, it's a shame but I'm glad everyone is all right.

-Brandon

Blackbirdfan · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:24 am

Joe Scheil wrote:

Gents,

This discussion has gone the wrong way. The "idea" that this was not a significant aircraft, or that this is "no big loss" for whatever reason is dead wrong. The aircraft that is Precious Metal is a Mustang in every sense of the word, and her history stems from both her North American design as well as the American know how that built her from scratch. Precious Metal was and is a "perfectly good" P-51, and while her "market" value stems from what is Mustang within her structure, she is significant in her own right. Will she survive as a racer or be modified or built into a stocker? Time will tell. But for those who long for "originality" would a conversion to a new TF-51 turn N6WJ into a worthwhile vintage airplane?

The racing "industry" is why we have arguments about originality and the percentage of in most of the surviving Mustangs. The reproduction of longerons and the ability to new build a Mustang structure was both required and fueled by racing. The related "state of the art" of Merlin engine rebuilding and the "bashing" of varied original engine configurations into the hybrid power plants flown for both racing and "warbirding" today are also "of racing".

Racing has always improved animals, people and machines, but through a painful process of breaking what is weak, and then going from there. The racing aircraft is a special bird, and Precious Metal is the longest lived Griffon Mustang ever. Her lineage is derived from both the .50 cal armed Mustang of WWII and the Blood Red RB-51 that is as iconic to aviation history as the Gee Bee of Jimmy Dolittle. Racing airplanes matter, they are priceless in a way and are very special examples of an almost vanished breed. Racing is history, and the exploits of civilian "racing" Mustangs are to me in some ways more important than the "paint scheme" history painted on planes today. There is a reason why the serial 44-10947 means very little to the history of Excalibur III. The postwar history, the innovation, daring and mettle of those who built that old warplane into the valiant machine that it is, allowed that red mustang to prove that the US could be struck from over the pole, and that polar air navigation, now commonplace, was possible. IN A FIGHTER! Amazing, and preserved by NASM.

I for one will always hope I win lotto. I sure would love to be the one to commission the rebirth of the RB-51 Red Baron (with permission) and park her next to a Super Corsair and Rare Bear and some of the other greats...

Precious Metal IS a P-51. Seeing her Griffon scream around the pylons was always Perfectly Good. Good luck in your racing next week Thom...and keep us posted

I agree wholeheartedly. Most of the P51s that are around today have little if any combat history. Many of them have a far greater history as a racer. Heck, many were saved from the crusher by guys who wished to go racing. I always cringe when a racer with good history is returned to stock and its real history erased with the paint. Stiletto is a good example. A winner at Reno that would still be a front runner had it not been turned into Diamondback. Excalibur III is another good example.

In Precious Metal's case, it was built from various parts, and then rebuilt. With the rebuild that will be required, its possible that Thom and his guys can take it from a good racer to an incredible one. They have already found ways to make her go faster than she ever has before, and that was with a mostly stock Griffon. These guys are very bright and innovative. I hope they do a crowdfund program and people step up and help them out. It was an unfortunate accident that could have happened to a stock mustang as well.

If I had to guess, PM is so far from stock it would cost more to make it a stock P51 than it would to fix and further develop it as a racer.

Will

Dudley Henriques · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

fiftycal wrote:

whats the big deal, he wrecked a perfectly good P-51 when he chopped it up like that anyway, hardly a "warbird"

Thank you for reminding me why I don't post here all that often.
Dudley Henriques

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Please correct me, I always thought that the "H" tail on PM is a COPY of an "H" tail, & that the original "H" tail is still with the (First ?) PM that the W. Bro.s STILL own, that was ditched, but recovered, (???) I always thought I read that in Air Classics or some other WarBird Mag. Glad Thom is O.K. Live to fly another Day ! :drink3:

RandolphB · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:42 pm

Big News just in from the Fan Page:

Dear Race Fans,

Precious Metal is more than an airplane; she's larger than life. You have all proven it since our ground fire incident mere hours ago. The groundswell of support is humbling. So what are our options? We could throw in the towel and move on from this tragic chapter and leave the world wondering what could have been.

Or...

We could, in true Team Precious Metal fashion, NEVER GIVE UP! Precious Metal does not deserve to be parted out and disappear into the history books as a failed attempt at the World's Fastest Motor Sport. She deserves to rise out of the ashes in true Phoenix fashion and prove her worth!

Everything is repairable; it's all a matter of capital. If we can raise the necessary funding to make this happen, she will race again!

Many things have to be repaired: wings, fuselage, engine, systems, cowling and last, but not least, her famous paint scheme. The Precious Metal program is run on countless hours of dedicated volunteers and a shoestring budget. This most recent set back is too much of a financial burden for the program to handle. As we know, a setback is just a setup for a comeback. Which brings us to our proposed solution. Here's Team Precious Metal's offer to you, our fans and supporters:

We will give you one square inch on Precious Metal for a donation of $50 towards our rebuild. We will fly your picture around the course embedded in our new paint scheme and you can be part of resurrecting one of the most iconic race planes is history.

Team Precious Metal will be in Reno this year. We will have our pit and sell our team gear. Chances are we'll provide some evening entertainment as well. Come see us there and purchase your squares!

There are several ways to support our cause: through our Precious Metal gear sales, our newly invented onboard picture program, or by supporting our sponsors and purchasing their products.

There's no limit as to how many square inches you can purchase, we'll just make your picture larger! Or submit pictures of friends, family, pets or whatever you desire. Precious Metal is the people's racer. And with your support she will growl around the course again!

Make your mark in air racing history here:

https://squareup.com/market/AirRaceTeam

On a personal note, air racing has been the most rewarding experience I have ever had. Not in the form of trophies and bragging rights, but in the form of enthusiasm, excitement and dedication of the fans and crewmembers. It's been a magical life experience, which I've been very fortunate to be a part of. We, as a team, will do whatever it takes to keep the dream alive. Please join us in making history and carrying on the legacy of the World's Fastest Motor Sport!

Thank you for making it possible,

Thom Richard

RandolphB · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:46 pm

TBM Tony wrote:

Please correct me, I always thought that the "H" tail on PM is a COPY of an "H" tail, & that the original "H" tail is still with the (First ?) PM that the W. Bro.s STILL own, that was ditched, but recovered, (???) I always thought I read that in Air Classics or some other WarBird Mag. Glad Thom is O.K. Live to fly another Day ! :drink3:

I can't find it, but there is a photo from during the build of the "H" tail, with the old N Number and some of the old paint job still on it just after being mated to the fuselage. Have always heard it was an original tail.

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Thanks Randolph ! AND CONGRATS on the good news ! I'll support! I may have gotten it backwards, and that the "ditched " P-51 the W.Bro.s have MAY have the tail copy I read about,... or I just need to go wander in a pasture for awhile :wink:

!

Zac Yates · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:37 pm

Yes yes yes!!! This is superb news! Definitely want to be a part of resurrecting PM. Awesome! :drink3:

Warbird Information Exchange

P-51 “Precious Metal” caught fire

Who is online