The impact 3d printing will have on the warbird community?

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 6:27 am

One of the Facebook WIX members posted this question on the WIX Facebook. This prompted quite a long thread and since Facebook sucks for long discussions I figured I'd create it here and we can continue a bit more in depth.

Thomas Lapinski wrote:

Has anyone given any thought to the possibilities and impact 3d printing will have on the warbird community? Imagine going to a hanger, sitting down at a computer, uploading all the blue prints of components for a P-36/TBD/Ju-87/Me-410/ect..., and pressing the print button. Wait for all the components to print and a month of assembly later, and boom, another bird on the airshow circuit. Not to mention the ease of making replacement parts for warbirds currently flying or under restoration. They've got aluminum and titanium media, so whats the hold up!?

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 7:16 am

Printing out an entire plane is highly unlikely, but components? possibly. What I see in the near future is not the printing of the actual components but printing out the various bucks and other tools to help form the sheet metal. Combining old and new technologies. Check out Scott Dennison's thread at http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/.../viewtopic.php.... Imaging how much easier it would be if you could print out the parts to be used as templates? And then form the actual parts using the tried and approved methods? or used them to make the molds for cast parts? In theory if you had the blueprints (I know, stretching it a bit) you could resurrect extinct aircraft. We just got one at work and the possibilities are interesting

JohnB · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 1:31 pm

It's one thing to do if for old autos, another for aircraft because of PMAs, and various regulations.

Still, if they can use them to make a casting mold, it will save time and money.
Cant be a BAD thing, though it won't be a panacea or bring the price of a North American Mustang down to a Ford.

quemerford · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:19 pm **Posts:** 1610

JohnB wrote:

It's one thing to do if for old autos, another for aircraft because of PMAs, and various regulations.

Still, if they can use them to make a casting mold, it will save time and money.
Cant be a BAD thing, though it won't be a panacea or bring the price of a North American Mustang down to a Ford.

3D printed components are already in use on aircraft, so it's not a case of 'if' for the warbird community, but 'when?'. From my experience it won't be a bad thing, unless it results in yet more P-51 and Spitfire replicas.

But if it results in a Republic Rainbow replica then I'm all for it.

:drink3:

ErrolC · **Posted:** Mon May 25, 2015 2:47 pm

Scott WRG Editor wrote:

Printing out an entire plane is highly unlikely, but components? possibly. What I see in the near future is not the printing of the actual components but printing out the various bucks and other tools to help form the sheet metal. Combining old and new technologies. Check out Scott Dennison's thread at http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/.../viewtopic.php.... Imaging how much easier it would be if you could print out the parts to be used as templates? And then form the actual parts using the tried and approved methods? or used them to make the molds for cast parts? In theory if you had the blueprints (I know, stretching it a bit) you could resurrect extinct aircraft. We just got one at work and the possibilities are interesting

Gene De Marco of The Vintage Aviator has mentioned doing exactly this for some components.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 12:52 am

I plan on using that very technology to create the pattern for casting the landing gear mount on my fixed gear 75.The possibilities are endless.

GregP · **Joined:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:13 pm **Posts:** 67

You can't 3D print a part and use it. The 3D printers make the part from plastic thaht melts easily. But you CAN print a part, use more wax to eliminate the digital "jaggies" and cast a metal part from it. I'm assuming that's what you mean.

I doubt seriously if there are a LOT of people out there turning their 3D parts into metal. Maybe a few and if so, then it will get easier with time and experience.

James D · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 3:40 am

Actually you can 3d print metal, though the machine costs 750,000 euros and will not do particularly large parts. (Think A3 paper sized items).
But these parts are 98% as strong as cast or machined metal pieces, or so I was told.

Creating your 3d model and emailing it to the foundry for lost wax casting or to a CNC shop for milling are probably the best ways currently.

quemerford · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:19 pm **Posts:** 1610

As already stated, printed metal parts are already in use on commercial airliners, in modern motorsports and also in military applications.

These materials and processes offer real benefits in terms of strength and weight-saving. Some of the latest sintering materials rival titanium in terms of strength, but with a similar mass properties to aluminum.

We really need to adjust our way of thinking, because (current size constraints not withstanding), the opportunities are endless. The future looks very bright, but as with many new technologies, it will take the nay-sayers a while to understand that.

ErrolC · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 5:46 am

TriangleP wrote:

ErrolC wrote:

Scott WRG Editor wrote:

Printing out an entire plane is highly unlikely, but components? possibly. What I see in the near future is not the printing of the actual components but printing out the various bucks and other tools to help form the sheet metal. Combining old and new technologies. Check out Scott Dennison's thread at http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/.../viewtopic.php.... Imaging how much easier it would be if you could print out the parts to be used as templates? And then form the actual parts using the tried and approved methods? or used them to make the molds for cast parts? In theory if you had the blueprints (I know, stretching it a bit) you could resurrect extinct aircraft. We just got one at work and the possibilities are interesting

Gene De Marco of The Vintage Aviator has mentioned doing exactly this for some components.

Errol, do you have a link to this info? would be great to read about this! Glad to read this process is already in the works for warbirds.

It was part of a discussion at the January 2015 Flying Weekend at Hood Aerodrome, Masterton. There was a planned Q&A with two of the pilots after one of the flying sessions, as well as a later one in the hangar (after the aircraft had being brought in as light rain started) which included Gene. He talked about various techniques used in construction and production, and the many skilled people that contribute. 3D printing came up, and was an option they used on some occasions.

No link to that specifically, but there is a great interview with him from late last year at Radio NZ.

The photo at the end of the album below was taken as the discussion got started, a great casual atmosphere.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/errolgc/s ... 8270639224

Zachary · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 8:46 am

This may be of interest: http://makerplane.org/

Zack

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

I have a buddy who ran a real high end machine (CNC or CAD?) in his work garage. That was his business from home. He would get an order from a customer, receive an email with the item's specs, download the specs into the computer on this fancy machine, setup the block of metal (blank) on the machine, hit "go" and this machine would cut this block of metal as per the specs that were downloaded into it's computer. He had a bed near the machine and would sleep or watch tv as the machine was working. Pretty slick deal.

So....It would not surprise me if there is a technologically advanced machine or system of advanced machines that can produce an airframe from a computer digital design....if it is not already out there.

stryper · **Joined:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:18 pm **Posts:** 73

GregP wrote:

You can't 3D print a part and use it. The 3D printers make the part from plastic thaht melts easily. But you CAN print a part, use more wax to eliminate the digital "jaggies" and cast a metal part from it. I'm assuming that's what you mean.

I doubt seriously if there are a LOT of people out there turning their 3D parts into metal. Maybe a few and if so, then it will get easier with time and experience.

Actually, it has already being done. A complete and functioning 1911 pistol was printed. 5,000 rounds fired through it with no problems. http://3dprint.com/21109/3d-print-metal-gun-reason/

When 3D printing was in its infancy, one of the problems was the integrity of the part, due to the printers inability to print the part in a high enough resolution. As we've seen with most technologies, given time, advancements made will to erase the shortcomings that they may have had.

Jay Leno embraced 3D printing early to help in the restoration of his car collection. He noted the technology was highly instrumental in reproducing some of the parts that not only were beyond repair, but were simply non-existent, due to the vehicle being the only one of its kind.

I can't estimate how far they will advance 3D printing technology (I'm thinking far enough), and believe some parts will still need to be casted, due their molecular makeup. But it is very exciting to think that some aircraft that once were thought to be financially unsound to rebuild, due to the cost and the lack/existence of parts, may now be looked at as "doable".

AFWhite · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 10:04 am

3D printed part "used" on P-3 Orion recently. They printed a "prototype" part prior to having one milled in order to ensure it worked...so not necessarily used in service.

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150519- ... plane.html

Laurent Stuck · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2015 5:02 pm

Hi from France

Beeing involved in those techniques for several years I would like to forward you some information about 3d techniques:
I'm an owner of a 1946 Stampe biplane and we are manufacturing an aluminium 30" crankcase by using 3D techniques. At Vint'air we set up a complete process from original to brand new part. This is really working very efficiently and we decided to make it available to other users.

This real life affordable hybrid technique is available for any project of aluminium or magnesium casting of any size and complexity. It uses digital scanning, casting simulation, 3D sandprinting, thus saving lot of money usually spent in tooling, testing...

Please have a look on our website : http://www.vintair.com/#!home-en/c1y28
and this short video : http://youtu.be/cDQsYvkvOxA

About metal parts direct printing, sofar industry is using it routinely for all type of alloys, with high accuracy, outstanding metallurgical quality, but is very expensive and size limited to 8-10" parts. This will change in the coming years for sure but it is still a bit early for most airplane collectors common use.

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