Jeff Ethell Stories

[Bill Greenwood]

When I got my plane, Earl Ketchen who was a CFI and had warbird experience in P-51, Corsair, ferried it for me. I do not believe he ever demonstrated a flight to get a rating for anyone, I think he may have had an unlimited piston fighter rating (none in Spitfire) as Jeff may have had. With approval I flew it solo, before involving the FAA. I got my LOA, 1984, by demonstrating for a FAA GADO employee who watched from the ground. He had flown some in B-25s, etc, but had no Spitfire time. As I understand it now the FAA may not be doing this with their own employees. Bill Dodds would have been a good check pilot, I wonder if he and Jeff ever flew together?

[Jase]

The thing with the LOA's is that an LOA (now gone away, replaced by ETR's) is only good for aircraft that are Experimental. The P-38 Jeff was killed in was in the Limited category, which requires a type rating.

The Feds, in an effort to standardize, have replaced the LOA's with ETR's, Experimental Type Ratings.

While Jeff did have an all makes & models LOA, those privileges only covered flying aircraft in the Experimental category. Had he wanted to fly something in Limited or Restricted, he would have had to have gotten a type rating. Remember, it's not the aircraft, it's the paperwork.

[tom roberts]

Jeff and Bill Dobbs flew together a lot. I can remember the day Jeff brought "Big Ass Bird" into Geneseo. Bill sat in the cockpit for a while while Jeff pointed out the controls. Did a walk around and took off as if he had flown it for 100 hours.

Jeff's passing was this month and July will be the 10 year anniversary of Bill passing on. Two great pilots leaving us a month apart

[tom roberts]

My apology Capt Bill Dodds

[Bill Greenwood]

Jase, were/are there any P-38s in Experimental rather than Limited? I assume Jeff was capable of flying the 38, because of his time in other similar twins and warbirds. The legal queston is another matter. One would likely not need a type rating initally to fly even a limited 38 as there has to some time for practice and proficincy flights solo before doing the demo for the examiner to get the rating. Did anyone act as instructor pilot for his previous flights in the 38? I had about 20 hours in type including solo before I flew for the FAA. I think I will look at the video again and see what Jeff demonstrated when he made it. Bill Dodds was a good guy and a friend as he was to most everyone. I can't think of any great words for losses like these.

[mustangdriver]

How did Bill Dodds pass, if no one minds me asking.

[Jack Cook]

I believe he had a heart attack or a stroke under his T-6 while at a airshow.
Sorta like Bob Love by his P-51D.

[Matt Gunsch]

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... bill+dodds

[Jerry O'Neill]

It was at Sullivan County, NY when Bill Dodds flew his last air show routine. He sat down under the SNJ, and never woke up.
Class act all the way. I really miss Bill and his never ending stream of jokes.
Jerry

[Bill Greenwood]

If there is an upside to Bill's death it is that it was peaceful,no crash or injury to others. Mike Schloss is a cardiologist and was there quickly,but nothing could be done.

[Jase]

Bill:

I imagine Jack Cook, or Randy or others'll jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. The CAF's old Scatterbrain Kid II was Experimental, as is Rod Lewis'. I am pretty sure Jack Ericson's -38 is also Experimental, which I think was the one that Jeff flew for that movie.

IIRC, the "Limited" P-38s were those that were used for civil photo-mapping and such after the war. I am pretty sure that one couldn't use Experimental registered aircraft for "hire" as it were.

So far as needing an initial type rating, my understanding is that the Feds will issue a temporary type rating for training purposes only (no pax, no ops over highly populated areas, etc). This would be issued on the basis of a competent CFI or NDPER's signoff attesting that you are capable of safe flight in the subject a/c. When the pilot candidate is comfortable in the a/c, you fly it for the Feds or their designee (an NDPER or some such). I dunno who was Jeff's I/P, I would presume that he had at least one. I only watched the movie once, just too hard to watch, especially when he pointed out the complex fuel system and how it could hurt you at the worst possible time....

About all I can say, regarding folks like Jeff, and Joe Tobul, and other "good friends, gone too soon" is to raise a glass and toast "Absent Friends".

Jase, were/are there any P-38s in Experimental rather than Limited? I assume Jeff was capable of flying the 38, because of his time in other similar twins and warbirds. The legal queston is another matter. One would likely not need a type rating initally to fly even a limited 38 as there has to some time for practice and proficincy flights solo before doing the demo for the examiner to get the rating. Did anyone act as instructor pilot for his previous flights in the 38? I had about 20 hours in type including solo before I flew for the FAA. I think I will look at the video again and see what Jeff demonstrated when he made it. Bill Dodds was a good guy and a friend as he was to most everyone. I can't think of any great words for losses like these.

[Jack Cook]

Erickson experimental changed from limited
POF Expermental
EVG limited
Red Bull limited
Croul Standard
Nichols Experimental

[menards]

Was he legal to fly the 38? That may be a technical point, and may depend on which lawyer argues which way. Jeff had unlimited fighter rating, does that exclude the 38? He was not only knowlegeable about the plane as his Dad had flown them in the war, but Jeff himself had flown one and even made a video about it. He had Twin Beech time and I think B-25 time, what else do you need? There is no dual control 38s, so any flight is going to be a first solo. If he was not legal, then how do you get to be? It seems this may be a difference on paper rather than logic. How did Lefty's son get legal to fly the 38 without previous flight time in one?

There was no "Unlimited Fighter Rating". Mr. Ethell held a LOA for "all makes and models" of "Experimental Aircraft". "Type Ratings" are required for all aircraft over 12,500 lbs. Mr Ethell held type ratings in the B-17, B-25, A-26, Connie, and the PV-2. You "get legal" by obtaining a "type rating". This means instruction and supervised soloing much like you did in a Cherokee or a 172 with your instructor watching with a radio. The FAA will issue a temporary type rating for a certian amount of days for training and checkrides. Lefty's P-38 is registered in the "Experimental" category, and Ladd when into extreme detail the training he underwent from his father before he flew it, not to mention he was around it all his life.

[dirtysidedown430]

Had the honor of meeting Jeff a number of years ago helping do airshows in central Pa western Pa east Ohio. He would fly in with a P51 out of Port Royal or was it Front Royal Va was own by this guy who owned a gravel cement company. After a number of shows Jeff told me one morn going to airport Youngstown Ohio that I was the best airshow driver he had ever had. Which really was a little strange to but he said he meant it. He was a true gentleman never heard him cuss, he would have a beer or two but was about it at the meals on the airport. He even took one our museum girls for a ride in 51 and when she heard about the crash really hit her hard. As to what happen with the 38, that airplane from I have read is killer, when the war ended so did almost all the P38s.

[John Dupre]

I really miss Jeff Ethell's writing. I never met him but he seemed a very genuine person with a deep love of aviation and family.

The only other thing I can contribute is that my understanding of the Limited category of registration is that it was opened for a few years after WW2 in order to allow for commercial use of military aircraft that did not have an opportunity to be registered other than Experimental. I think too that the Limited category is supposed to be dependent on the aircraft remaining current on the registry. In other words if a Limited category aircraft were de-registered for any reason it could not then be re-registered in the Limited category. I am sure that many aircraft retained their Limited category despite being de-registered but they weren't supposed to. Used to know some warbird types that ran into that scenario due to a particularly well informed FAA inspector