Warbird Information Exchange

Great news...

but "Gabrielski"??...

Zack, Chris, somebody get this fixed!!

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

On it!

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Now THIS is great news! The F-35 is not even a vintage warbird and certainly not what a warbird enthusiast would go to Oshkosh to see. But Dean's beautiful F-100F - it's about time it made it to Oshkosh. Should be an excellent vintage jet warbird gathering there this year.

Thanks, Chris!

First two rounds at the beer tent are on me.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

There is an exciting crop of warbirds possible at OSH this year. What always surprises me is the inability to get the unique combinations into the show. I know that there is a great deal of logisitcs involved. New restorations are flying in for judging, then flying out so they tend not to fly in the show, etc etc. But WHO is in charge of trying to coordinate unique formations that present themselves at Oshkosh? If three F-86's (or five) show up, is somebody able to attempt to get them to fly together? We have had five P-40's show up, and multiple P-38's in recent years, I always hope that they will put them up together. Also is the B-52 flying in and then out, or might we see a massive bomber heritage flight?
~Jim

In regards to the F-35, I would argue that many people come here to see exactly that type of aircraft and technology. I think it's a solid choice to have. The B-52 is going to also be able to honor not only our folks currently in uniform but also celebrate the legacy this airframe has. I think it's a great one to have here. There is lots of amazing events being planned.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I will be there Monday and Tuesday as part of a longer road trip I'm taking. I just hope most of these aircraft arrive during that time frame as opposed to later in the week. I've never been to Oshkosh before, so I'm not really sure what to expect in that regard. I'm not going to get too hung up on missing an airplane or two, I'm just really excited about the possibility of seeing some of these warbirds. Looking forward to my first trip to Airventure!

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Matt

Jim, you have my word that I personally will bring up your comments to Senior Leadership. To be honest, we are all so busy doing other things we almost never get the opportunity to take a run through the big areas. If there is something specific you would like to see done, please do not hesitate to Contact me. My office number is 920-426-6845 and my email is aovans@eaa.org. Trust me, we are working on some sort of B-52 flyby. IF we can get a window to get a heritage type pass we will do our best to make it happen!

Thanks!

Andy

Wow, excellent, thank you for the reply Andy! This is not a new topic for me. I literally grew up watching warbird shows at Oshkosh (no, really, I was there at 9 months old in 1973 and have only missed four years since!), so I am very passionate about the shows put on there. I have posted this in years past on the EAA forums with no real reply, so to finally be able to get some dialog with one of those involved is exciting.
Here is a post from the EAA forums after last year to give a bit more background on my thoughts:

"As a long time visitor that loved my eight days at Osh 2014 everything was great, but the air shows could be improved. The T-33's were cool, as was the TX Flying Legends dogfight, but beyond that a major disappointment. The “Tora Tora Tora” and TX Flying Legends shows of 2013 were superb, and I hoped that we would see more of that in the future, but I was wrong. I know weather impacted Friday, but the rest of the week was no better.
There were two P-38's on the ramp capable of flying. Would have loved to see them do a flyby together. Throw the zero in there for them to chase around and you have a very memorable formation.
Would have loved to see a few of the Lockheed 12's in the air together. I know some of the owners choose not to fly, but I also know the DAV B-25 puts on a fantastic solo demo flight, and from talking to them they wanted to but were not given a slot. Bummer.

I posted this after the 2012 show, and while 2013 was an improvement, 2014 was a step back:
I feel the warbird shows have gotten kind of stale. Single P-51's doing flat laps for 10 minutes...the B-25's flying high and above the crowd while the O-birds circle on stage center.
Oshkosh brings a large array of aircraft together one time a year, and the air show would be a great place to showcase this. I offer some possible ideas for improvement:

~We had three great versions of tri-motors on the field, Junkers, Stinson, Ford. How cool would a three ship pass from those be?
~How about a tail chase of the A-36 to P-51D progression, going from A-36 to 51A, B, C and D with some narrative about each variant? The planes where there to do it.
~Hinton in the P-38 doing acro was awesome. More vintage solo acts would be great. How about the Horseman?
~Can the tail chase passes be a bit more animated? Some curving passes that show the tops and bottoms of the wings, not just a profile? (More Max Hoffman-ish of you will)
~I would love for the EAA warbird show to look a bit more like the Legends show at Duxford. No reason it cannot. This 2 minute clip is exactly what I wish the show organizers would plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCja_syG3uk

Thanks, watch the clip, and see if you can get the Senior Leadership to watch it as well!
~Jim

That is a very well produced video, and very exciting to watch. Thanks.

- and I remember the "Max Hoffman" days.

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remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

Perhaps EAA has learned the hard lesson(s) of Legends' "more-animated", low-level warbird displays?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG4mCvUfpsk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xctYWSuwoYA

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

I am glad someone recalls Max Hoffman's displays. They were always a treat.
I am very familiar with both of those incidents at Duxford. The p-38 was in 1996. Steve Hinton did a very nice single ship acro routine in the P-38 recently at Oshkosh, so I would guess there is willingness to allow military aerobatic routines. Obviously there is inherent risks in any of the performances, warbird or not, and aggressive or not. Without reliving the details there have been ugly formation takeoff and landing incidents in recent years at Oshkosh. Risk management needs to be the foremost consideration in all of these events. If that is the final answer in the change to the routines, I can accept that but I would be surprised if that was the main contributing factor.
~Jim

It is safe to say you will see an improvement of the warbird shows this year. We have been working with a couple of the groups to doing professional air displays. TFL and Tora are bringing their A game this year, and we are excited to see what they are coming with. I agree that the Lockheed 12's would have been great to see in the air together, but the owners have the final say. I know they did get up for a photo flight together before they all departed.

One of my best friends and co-workers used to fly Panchito, I guess the solo act has never been brought to our attention as something to consider. They might have requested a solo slot to warbirds, but not to the Air Show team.

We would love to have more of a show like Duxford, but have received guidelines we have to play in from the FAA.

Steve Hinton flew an amazing solo Tigercat routine two years ago, I don't recall a solo P-38 acro routine. He might have done a short demo to slot in the heritage flight, I am not sure.

From an airshow standpoint, the Warbirds of America are given a "slot" to fly in the daily shows. They ask for volunteers among their group to fly in the daily shows. We have never really asked people to fly because there is always an open invite to fly. This is how I understand it, I could be wrong since I have nothing to do with the warbird portion of the show. I do know that at ICAS this year, we had great conversations with everyone and we look forward to what they are bringing to AirVenture.

Olympic Flight Museum's FG-1D!

I am VERY EXCITED about the Olympic FG-1D. A good buddy of mine did work on that airplane at Airpower Unlimited.

I am also very encouraged that there appears to be more focus on the warbird show product, which is great news.

I have vivid memories of Hinton doing a pretty extensive acro routine in Glacier Girl during Oshkosh 2012. It was early in the week and NOT on the daily line up. I was cooking brats in Camp Scholler. The Brats got abandoned and burnt as my brother and I ran to the fence to watch. Still worth eating burnt brats to see.

One other question, does anyone actively try to track estimated arrivals of some of the marquee warbirds? There are several new restorations that I would love to see in operation. I know the best chance for this is when they arrive or leave as they tend to get prettied up and stay on the ground once they do. It would take a decent amount of research, some inside knowledge, and some serious Flight Aware attention but I think it could be done. Although the schedules are very subject to change, it would be cool to have a depository of the intended plans of the most interesting aircraft that are not likely to fly during the week in hopes of catching an arrival.
Thanks
Jim