Warbird Information Exchange

I'd hate to see Gary's work become Hangar art, but I'm done scratching checks to the CAF until they undergo regime change...

http://m.heyo.com/70d4f0

Meanwhile, the CAF is going to spend tens of millions of dollars to build a new HQ...

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

Why'd they change the nose art to something smiliar to what carried back in the 80s? I really liked the cartoon B-24 on the nose.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

The word on the street at the time was that the "new" artwork was more marketable, would allow the public to better identify with the aircraft, and a lot of people at airshows asked "where is Diamond Lil?"

No changes from the current art work planned of which I am aware....
As much as I loved "Ol '927"...... It was very true from being out on tour with the B-24A, people kept asking where was "Diamond 'Lil".....hence the squadron voted to return back to the former name....

Uh...guys..... nothing is wrong with "Lil", other than a high time engine changed planned for this summer. We are simply fund raising to help place a more dollars in the kitty to pay for that new engine.......if you read other newsletters from other organizations.....money is always in short supply. FYI..... HQ has never been responsible (with a few exceptions) for the money raised and spent by the respective squadron(s) on that units aircraft. That is part of your "lease" so to speak when you or your unit sponsors that aircraft.

alan

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Just call me Al.

Fair enough on the old name. I know when I was around the Collings folks after the first and second repaints of the B-24 to the dragon then witchcraft paint jobs, people would come up and ask where their other B-24 was. To them it had to have been a totally different airplane than the one they were then looking at.
One of the volunteers couldn't convince a really annoying fan that this was the same B-24 he's seen years before by saying something in effect, "Look, there's only one of these with this configuration of turrets that has ever flown within the last 15 years or so and it's this one. You are familiar with the idea of repainting something, aren't you?" The guy still didn't understand how this could be the same plane, even after that.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

So why cater to idiots? I agreed with decision to change away from diamond lil because it was a tired graphic then and its a tired graphic now. CAF needs to get a clue and realize that paint scheme changes on occasion create interest and excitement. Collings has the right idea. How many tens of thousands will be coming out to see Doc because its something different....not like Fifi that has not changed whatsoever in 40 years. I love the B29 but I don't pay to get in the gate to see it anymore because theres nothing new to see. But I will for sure be forking over the dough to see Doc when it rolls into town...

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All I did was press this red button here...

While Collings has changed their B-24 a number of times, their B-17 "Nine-O-Nine", has always had the same identity. IIRC, Collings has been trying different things to make the B-24 as popular of a draw as the B-17.

These planes seem to take on their own distinct personalities that come with their name. Look at how disappointed everyone was when "Chuckie" became "Madras Maiden"? Still the same plane, just with different paint.

When you're organization is reliant on public contributions to stay solvent, then you really do need to cater to your clientele. If they were calling for Ol 972 to return to Diamond Lil, then that's what needs to be done to keep them up in the air where they belong.

Because that's the majority of people in the world.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

Catering to idiots?, of which the majority of us are? Seriously? ... well I can only suggest that most of us idiots (not all) are more interested in seeing these old airplanes flying than what paint scheme they wear. Now before I'm called a hypocrite for the "Madras Maiden' fiasco I started a while back, let me explain that yes it's always nice for those of us who are serious enthusiasts to see something new as far as paint schemes go from time to time, but I'd guess more of us would rather see these planes flying more so than a new scheme. This is because most of us are well aware of the costs involved with painting a new scheme which is mucho expensive, even for the rich dudes let alone the CAF folk. I'd say the POF group does a nice job each year of re-painting one or two in their fleet for their May show.

I'm all for 'spicing it up' scheme wise, but if that exercise reduces an airplanes flight time, forget it and keep what it's wearing. And to be clear the MM deal IMO is simply one of, if your going to re-paint a B-17 anyway (of all warbirds) then at least try to do it right for no other reason than to honor and respect the vets who flew them and of which there's far more bomber vets still alive than fighter vets IMO. I get the "not my plane, not for me to b*tch about" deal as well, but it's simply too bad to lose such a great opportunity. Nuff said on that.

The bottom line is I'm not sure there's enough of a warbird fan base following to warrant changing paint schemes to cater to some sort of demand for variety. If the CAF could, and would, change up some schemes from time to time, great! for us enthusiasts, but if it's not in their budget and would take away from their flying schedules, keep the same paint and fly more.

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Best of luck to D.L & her people , sent a small donation their way. Good luck Everyone there !

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WWI & WWII Warbird Fan.

The public is who pays the bills for groups like the CAF and Collings. And yes, those groups are certainly catering to idiots. They have to, otherwise those planes will never leave the ground.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I'm not getting you. Are those idiots separate from us idiots? Last I checked I'm a part of the public as well and I've forked out $$$ towards those groups you listed. I don't get your point. Guess it's the idiot in me that doesn't get it

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Not sure what the fuss is about here.

You'd have to have a short memory to see Lil as the same old boring plane. Relative to 10 years ago, her name is about the only thing that looks the same. CAF (Gary) did a great job giving her a new look and she is the freshest looking heavy bomber out there (I don't count Madras Maiden because it is not clear to me that she is getting out to shows).

Anyone's entitled to his opinion on the name and nose art, but I was glad to see "Ol' 927" go. I thought it was a bit bizarre and fake seeming. "Ol' 927" is the kind of name that a machine acquires informally among its crew, like "Old Ironsides." A machine doesn't get that kind of name from having it painted on. If it gets painted on the machine at all, it is only after people have called it that informally for some time. In the case of Lil, nobody ever called her "Ol' 927". Painting that name on her was like what marketers call astroturfing -- a fake grass roots campaign that you try to engineer to look informal. I think this fakeness was why the name didn't take, although nobody may have over-thought it through like this. "Diamond Lil" might have been an ersatz name at first but has been earned by the plane over the years. It's also useful for communicating to older but not-so-tuned-in enthusiasts who might have taken new-look Lil for a new plane that, no, it's the same B-24 you remember from the 1980s and 1990s but look how much better it looks now.

August

But August...

During WWII, "Ol' 927" was what EVERYONE called her...at least everyone with Consolidated Vultee.

And that was the whole point of the "Ol' 927" artwork: To give her her HISTORICALLY ORIGINAL name back.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.