USCG PBY-5A Crash Site in Oregon

[jdvoss]

I ran across the attached link about a USCG PBY-5A crash that occured in 1947 near Medford, Oregon. It hit a mountain top and there were two survivors. Given the remoteness of the site I am curious if the wreck is still there?? Perhaps some of our Oregon WIX'ers could provide some info...

http://www.check-six.com/Coast_Guard/PB ... _Crash.htm

[daveymac82c]

You might want to try the guys on wreckchasing.com

The link to their message board is:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/pacaeropress

Good luck,

David Mc

[Doc1928]

I ran across the attached link about a USCG PBY-5A crash that occured in 1947 near Medford, Oregon. It hit a mountain top and there were two survivors. Given the remoteness of the site I am curious if the wreck is still there?? Perhaps some of our Oregon WIX'ers could provide some info...

http://www.check-six.com/Coast_Guard/PB ... _Crash.htm

Hello jdvoss,

I am the son of one of the survivors of this crash and I am working on the location. My father (deceased, 2011) was very close to the crash location many years after with my mother but got chased out by a Forest Ranger due to a forest fire. I do know that to reach the site you have to back pack in. I am working on the exact location so I can visit the site in the near future. I would like to ask anyone if they have any information to please post.

Thank you, Doc1928

[Left Seat]

I couldn't find any references to the PBY crash on Medfordtribune.com. ...probably not scanned and still stored on microfilm.

I think the summit of Richter Mountain (4792 feet) is roughly N42.76373° W122.94894°....about 10 miles NE of Shady Cove (1406 feet).

Richter Mountain is above the snow line. I doubt anyone is going up there this time of year.

You could probably use Google Earth to look for evidence.

There is a BLM/US Forest Service road (NF-3232) about 1/2 mile from the peak. Some of the terrain looks like it had been clear-cut or burned a few years back and has filled in. Hard to tell if it is in the Tiller Ranger District (can you spell "spotted owl"?).

My guess that the crash site has filled in with overgrowth... if it is still up there.

Shady Cove is about 35 miles NE of where I live.

Larry (Tanker 62) has a lot of air time in the area. He may have spotted it from the air (if it was visible).

http://peakery.com/richter-mountain-oregon/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/42%C2%B045%2749.4%22N+122%C2%B056%2756.2%22W/@42.7349892,-122.9455068,29050m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
http://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=30878

It is not the first time a plane went down up there (July 1944, BT-13 ferry flight, WASP pilot)
http://www.mailtribune.com/article/20121111/News/211110317

Last edited by Left Seat on Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[CoastieJohn]

I ran across the attached link about a USCG PBY-5A crash that occured in 1947 near Medford, Oregon. It hit a mountain top and there were two survivors. Given the remoteness of the site I am curious if the wreck is still there?? Perhaps some of our Oregon WIX'ers could provide some info...

http://www.check-six.com/Coast_Guard/PB ... _Crash.htm

Hello jdvoss,

I am the son of one of the survivors of this crash and I am working on the location. My father (deceased, 2011) was very close to the crash location many years after with my mother but got chased out by a Forest Ranger due to a forest fire. I do know that to reach the site you have to back pack in. I am working on the exact location so I can visit the site in the near future. I would like to ask anyone if they have any information to please post.

Thank you, Doc1928

Hey Doc,

I have researched that crash myself. Pretty sure I have seen pics of the crashed PBY somewhere (see below). Below is a news article on it with a description of where it's at. I think if the logging road is still there, one could drive to the point in the summer time and drop down the 500' (+ or -) from the road and do a search for it (400' feet from a fire tower too). If you happen to find the site it may be of interest to the CG Aviation Association for historical purposes. (http://www.aoptero.org/)

In the topo link above, there is listed a "shelter" and a "Richter Shack" I'm speculating the shack maybe the old quarters for the fire tower crew. If you can find an older topo that actually shows the fire tower mentioned in the link below....you should be within 400' of the crash site. I have a guess based on looking at Google Earth and the shadows in the actual crash pics....sun location, direction things are facing, etc.

Also, if the CG rescue pilot (David Sinclair) is still alive, you could locate him and see what he can tell you about the location. He maybe able to look at Google Earth and pinpoint it or even have the lat/long.

John



http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=8 ... 71,1861454

Other links:

http://www3.gendisasters.com/oregon/126 ... h-feb-1947

The report from the rescue pilot who flew on the search. Good details on the crash location approx. 400 yds west from the fire tower. If the fire tower is still there or on a map...that helps a lot.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... eHlsQXig3A

Ebay pic of survivor (your dad?)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1947-Medford-OR- ... 5b02ade598

Pics of crashed PBY:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Medford-Or ... 0716839828
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1947-Mt-Richt ... 5d4929206c

[Left Seat]

"I have researched that crash myself."

"Pretty sure I have seen pics of the crashed PBY somewhere (see below)."

"In the topo link above, there is listed a "shelter" and a "Richter Shack" I'm speculating the shack maybe the old quarters for the fire tower crew."

"You should be within 400' of the crash site."

Good dig.

Mount Richter rises to 4700 feet at its peak.
The plane crashed into the side of Diamond Rock, a high elevation on the southwest slope of <Richter> mountain.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=8%20...%2071,1861454

Diamond Rock Lookout was destroyed/decommissioned in 1969... the concrete piers are still there.

You can see the "Lookout", "Diamond Rock", and "Richter Mtn." on the below map.
http://mapcarta.com/23792046

Here is a nice 3D map of "Diamond Rock" and the location of former "Lookout"
http://itouchmap.com/?r=googleearth&mt=iTouchMap%20Point&ml=42.8058500&mg=-122.9198333

Terrain map showing Richter Mountain, "shelter", and "Richter cabin" locations. You can also see a couple of "gold mines".
http://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=30878

Last edited by Left Seat on Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[Left Seat]

I called and talked to a ranger in the Tiller Ranger District earlier today. He was unaware of the '47 PBY crash. He also mentioned hearing a rumor of the removal of plane wreckage from the mountain a few years back.

That could have been from WASP, Paula Ruth Loop's 1944 BT-13 crash:
In 2003... volunteers from the Oregon Aviation Historical Society in Cottage Grove recovered the crashed plane's engine and a tubular section of the fuselage. Both are now on display in the society's museum, a memorial to the life of Paula Loop.

I'd like to go up '47 PBY crash site in May, when it drys out.


Paula Ruth Loop's 1944 BT-13 wreckage
http://twudigital.cdmhost.com/cdm/singleitem/collection/p214coll2/id/5873/rec/19

Last edited by Left Seat on Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

[CoastieJohn]

The altitudes in the above story on the crash are off some. The PBY's alt was supposed to be 6000'. The story above said they hit approx 200' below the ridgeline approx 400 yards west of the fire tower. Diamond Rock's peak is approx 4200'. No worries though on the altitudes. IMO there is enough info between the story, the pictures and the news article to create a search box and do a foot search.

http://www.firetower.org/lookouts/Lookout.aspx?id=788

Lookout Details

Registry Numbers US 788, OR 197
Date Submitted December 10, 2010
Submitted by Ray Kresek
Location Umpqua National Forest
Douglas County, Oregon
Coordinates N 42° 48.351' W 122° 55.190' (Google Maps)
Elevation 4200'
Administered by U.S. Forest Service

Description
In 1930 a rag camp was set up here, which was replaced in 1940 with a ground L-4 cab on a 100' rock pillar. The site was abandoned in 1941. but was restaffed 18 years later. It was removed in 1968.

Some pics of it.
http://www.firelookout.com/or/diamondrock.html

The old pillars. The crash site should be approx 400 yards west of here.




If I were to conduct a search, I would start in this general area. It matches the clues of (1) "approx 400 yds west of the (Diamond Rock) Fire Tower, (2) approx "500' down from the road" (by the fire tower?) and (3) "approx 200' from a ridgeline" in the southerly direction the PBY would have been flying for a landing at Medford.

[Left Seat]

Today, I visited a friend that was the head of support logistics for firefighting in the state of Oregon. He was the "go to guy" for materials/personnel to fight fires (retardant bombers, cats, hotshots, etc.).

He was surprised that there were people waving at the "lookout" during the "off season". I suppose that these "people" could have been "locals" using the lookout's "hot line" to the division of forestry to phone in the crash. This was a very primitive area in 1947 and not very many people had phones.

My friend was a "hotshot" while in college locally and an avid hunter. He is familiar with the area. He had not heard of the PBY crash.

I have a call into the Oregon Aviation Historical Society to see if they have any additional information. I still have a few hunter friends and locals to call.

I did have lunch with a friend today and we are tentatively planning a trip up there some time in the spring. It slushed last night and was 22 degrees when I got up this morning, so I am not too enthusiastic about going up there in the next couple of days.

Last edited by Left Seat on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Left Seat]

Here is an excerpt I found about the crash:

A Fatal PBY-5A Crash

The Executive Officer at CGAS Port Angeles was Lieutenant Commander James MacIntosh. (He was senior, of course, to me.) He only flew to get the required four hours a month to receive flight pay. He avoided instrument training flights altogether. I needled him about it and he said he would like to fly more but his job as Exec kept him at his desk. When orders to ferry a PBY-5A Catalina from Port Angeles to Elizabeth City, N.C., for overhaul came through, he accepted the opportunity to not only get in a lot of flight hours but a lot of simulated instrument flight time.

The Fatal Flight.
MacIntosh selected one of our most skilled pilots whose name I cannot remember. He had come up through the ranks to Lieutenant. He loved instrument flight, but he also took chances, especially on rescue missions. They would have an Aviation Machinist and a Radioman as crew. They were scheduled for a Saturday morning takeoff to land for the night in Medford, Oregon, south of Portland.

I (the Operations Officer) was called at home in the late afternoon with the report the plane had not yet reported its arrival. I went immediately to the station and we began checking with air traffic control and all the airports en route.

I learned that the pilots had decided to maximize instrument time by “flying under the hood” when not flying in real instrument conditions. “Under the hood” means covering the cockpit windows with amber isinglass and having the pilot “on instruments” wearing a blue glass eye shield. The pilot can see the dashboard instruments through the blue film but cannot see outside as that view is blacked out by the combination of blue and amber. The copilot, however, can see everything in the cockpit and outside just as if wearing sunglasses. I had no knowledge of their plan.

Their flight plan began to unravel. They were flying on an instrument clearance (IFR) between Portland and Medford at ten thousand feet at the PBY’s cruising airspeed of about one hundred forty knots bucking a forty-knot headwind. It was very turbulent and must have felt like they were never going to get to Medford. They cancelled their instrument clearance and dropped down to fly below the clouds at 6,000 feet using visual flight rules (VFR). Contact was lost.

The Search.
I spent a restless night at the station. I convinced the CO it was wishful thinking that they might have found an alternate airport and that I would take the ready PBY and search the route. He didn’t object.

The weather had moderated. The winds were still from the south. Most of the turbulence was caused by thermals. I held their altitude of 6,000 feet easily until just in the lee of the ridge when a downdraft hit us and we had to quickly turn and get out of there.

On our second pass, I stayed a little higher and we spotted smoke. We circled and identified it as the crash and, in that pass, we spotted persons at a fire lookout station waving at us. We prepared and dropped them a message block telling them of the sighting west about four hundred yards.

I landed at Medford and joined the land party being organized to go to the wreck to remove the bodies. The crash was a terrible sight. The four man crew was incinerated at their stations. But there was amazing news—two seamen who were getting a ride survived the crash. Riding in the waist section of the plane, they were slammed against the bulkhead but not otherwise hurt. The older of the two reported that he immediately opened the door to go forward to see if he could help and was met by flames. The two jumped out the blisters and ran for their lives to a safe distance, where the rescue party found them.

The Investigation concluded that the pilots probably studied the chart and found the highest point on the ridge immediately north of Medford to be 5,050 feet. At 6,000 feet, they would clear the ridge by nearly 1,000 feet. But at the ridge they entered clouds, hit a downdraft losing at least 200 feet, and crashed into the forest of evergreen trees. The plane burst into flames about 200 feet below the crest. That doesn’t calculate. What went wrong?

Charts were checked. They had the latest issue. However, an older issue showed the ridge at 5,850 feet. The newer chart showed the eight crudely changed to zero! (Does that calculate? 6,000-foot flight altitude minus 200-foot downdraft equals 5,800 feet. But the ridge crest is at 5,850 feet!!)

The sad fact remains that they violated Visual Flight Rules by entering the clouds thinking they could squeak over the ridge.

From: https://www.uscg.mil/history/WEBORALHIS ... lair22.pdf

[CoastieJohn]

That story is the same one at the link I provided above.

I too wondered about the people in the tower. Looking at the timeline, when the 2nd PBY did the flyover and seen the people and the smoke from the crashed PBY, that would have been the 2nd day and I'm thinking those folks could have been local spotters who went up there to help with the search or recovery. The 2nd PBY would not have known that as they likely didn't have radio comms with them if they had to drop a message float.

Spring/early summer would be a good time to go up there after the snow is gone and you can see the ground. When I was stationed in North Bend my first tour, I tried to take the Powers route to Grants Pass in the winter....bad call. I turned around when the snow got too deep up in the mountains.

[JNJ]

I discovered this thread on accident while doing some research, however growing up in the surrounding Medford area, I have been to this crash site. There isn't much left but I recall some landing gear and possibly a seat along with rubble. Just thought I would signup and end this mystery by sharing what I know...

[CoastieJohn]

I discovered this thread on accident while doing some research, however growing up in the surrounding Medford area, I have been to this crash site. There isn't much left but I recall some landing gear and possibly a seat along with rubble. Just thought I would signup and end this mystery by sharing what I know...

JNJ,

Thanks for the follow up. Was I close with my search area above? The Coast Guard Aviation Association maybe interested in placing a memorial at or near the site. You can send me a private message or email. longgone79@hotmail.com

Thanks....John

[Left Seat]

JNJ,

I am interested as well.

I am planning to go up there in a couple of weeks (about an hour drive for me) weather cooperating.

[Left Seat]

Five of us ventured up to "Diamond Rock" fire lookout this afternoon. It was a 45 minute drive in a one-ton 4x4 crew cab on unimproved forest service roads from Shady Cove.

The distance from the forest service road to the base of the Diamond Rock pinnacles, is a short, but unbelievably steep, rugged (30-45 degrees) .25 mile, westerly hike, up decomposed granite. The former USFS Diamond Rock lookout is located on one of two vertical pinnacles a couple of hundred feet vertically, straight up (about 75-80 degrees). The ladders and stairs were removed when the tower was decommissioned and torn down. So, you rock climb to the top. Once at the top of the lookout, you are rewarded with an spectacular 360 degree view in all directions. I marveled at the concrete pillars of the former tower and wondered how in the world they (CYA?) hauled the cement and water up there to mix and pour the footings (they must have been REAL animals!).

From the top of the lookout, we could not recognize any change in foliage that would give clues to the location of a plane crash. We made our way back down to the road and proceeded to work our way, cross country, down the 30 degree slope, spaced about 50 feet apart side to side. I expected open understory beneath the conifers, but the undergrowth was fairly thick (I have the scratches to prove it). Wreckage could have been 20 feet away from you and you could have walked right passed it. We dropped onto FS 3102-340 (which was not on the map) and hiked back up to the main (if you could call it that) road.

It all, we were gone about 5 hours and did not see diddly squat (unless you include a couple million conifers, a couple of deer, and a grouse or two). I intend to revisit the area and try again. We only covered about a quarter of the area that I wanted to explore. There is still more area to explore. Next time, I will wear a heavy canvas long sleeve shirt.


This picture is very misleading. This pinnacle is about 25 feet wide and goes vertically straight down a couple hundred feet on the east side and about 500 feet on the west side.


West side of "Diamond Rock" pinnacles, as seen from the approximate location of the PBY crash


Circa 1941, looking west


Circa 1941