Warbird Information Exchange

Bob... Randy... having looked at the pics of the area including the ones George Matthews showed at the reunion in OCT, it would be quite an adventure to go HCM trail riding. The one thing I don't like though is poisonous snakes. I may have to forgo the adventure part and participate in the re-enactment of a downed pilot rescue that the Duck Drivin Lady mentioned earlier. This is turning out to be a very popular event at airshows. Now if I can just keep from running over a certain black O2, the PLBA, then Kay would be a great addition to the act. From the hinterlands of NJ this morning, JR

My goal in wanting to ride the HCM Trail was two fold. First, I wanted to see what it was like for myself. Using Google Earth and Map you can still see the scars the bombing has left on the land. Areas around "The Chokes" (Choke points on the Trail) still show massive bomb cratering... at least in the view from Google.

The second reason was to visit as many of the Search and Rescue (SAR) locations as I could. My planned route would take me to the locations of the largest SARs of the war as well as to the places where some of our air crews died. One of my "must go" places is Harley's Valley. Captain Lee Harley and Airman First class Andre Guillet flying in a O-1 FAC were shot down there, went MIA and never seen again. The area where they were shot down became known to American Fliers for evermore as "Harley's Valley". (I claim it should be known as Harley-Guillet Valley, but that's not how it happened.) Anyway... I want to explore around "Harley's Valley" just so I know first hand what it's like on the ground there.

The same goes for the other areas I want to visit. A friend of mine, (Col. Bill Bagwell, ret) was flying an A-1 from NKP when he was shot down. He had to spent the night in "Indian Country" before a SAR could pull him out the next day. My plan was to spend the night in the jungle where he "camped out" hiding from guys with AK-47s. OK... I had a sleeping bag, modern MREs, and all the modern camping stuff so it wouldn't be like Bill's "adventure". Still, I want to get the understanding of what it must have been like for thousands of our Airmen that were shot down in Laos. (By the way... Bill Bagwell wrote his biography that includes chapters about this and his time at NKP... It's "Plagued By Good Luck". Check out the cover depicting his rescue on Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006BHKWFY )

This is a long way to say that I love the idea of re-enacting a SAR. Our efforts to rescue our downed airmen may have been the most noble events of the war. Most have seen or heard of the movie (and book), "Bat-21" with Gene Hackman and Danny Glover. Well... those rescue efforts went on time after time throughout the war. I'll be there if a "Duck", Sandy, Nimrod, and Jolly Green Giant are flying in the same airspace again.

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Bob
Memories of Naked Fanny
More Memories of Naked Fanny (Nov 2013)
609th Nimrod, Bomb loader, Gun Plumber, '68 - '69

Bob....it's already being done at airshows. I've owned the O-2 for almost 14 years and do about 20-24 shows a year. About 65% of them involve multiple aircraft Vietnam reenactments. It may be a T-28, Bird Dog and myself at small shows to full blown large shows like the recent Wings Over Houston where we had two Hueys, one Cobra, O-2, T-28, Skyraider, A-4, F100, MiG 17 and MiG 21 (would have also had a F-4 if the new engine had arrived in time). Also had ground reenactors, military ground vehicles and pyro. Keep track of the airshows in your area and you will find that some are putting on the Vietnam routine or come to Texas cuz we have plenty of them

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..........."The Chokes" (Choke points on the Trail) still show massive bomb cratering...

=====In November 67, (Thanksgiving Day, to be exact) I flew with my squadron commander from Udorn to DaNang, and could not believe tha amount of bomb craters crossing Laos. It was almost like you could have stepped from crater to crater from Thailand to Vietnam. It looked totally decimated then, I could only imagine what another 5 or 6 years did to it.

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Randy Ryman
Project Big Eagle
NKP Thailand 1966
http://www.coastcomp.com/av/florence/florandy.htm

Plus the first year we did it with Pat we had a H-34...............at San Marcos....................that was probably the first SAR reenactment that was ever done at an airshow.

Ober... good to hear from you. So an H-34 was involved in the pilot rescue re-enactment probably in the first show. Where did it go from there? And Bob, about Harley's Valley, I heard about it for the first time from George Matthews at the Nimrod Reunion last OCT. He had a picture of it on a DVD. I am not sure I can lift it, but will try. Randy, it was said that Laos had more bombs dropped on it than Germany in WWII. Hard to believe that so much of the war was there, but the NVA must have had people working like Fire Ants to keep the roads open and supplies moving. I wonder how close we actually came to stopping them and how much more could have been done without all the silly restrictions in the rules of engagement. The A26 guys talk about they couldn't attack a truck if it was more than 100 meters off the road. They also couldn't get credit for a truck unless it burned. If it was blown to pieces and didn't burn, no credit. Washington at its finest! And to the Duck Drivin Lady, have you burned up any more airports lately during a show?? Can she take credit for that?? If so, what would the symbol be to put on the side of the Duck? Glad to be back in the Republic, JR

Seventy three years ago, the tragedy of Pearl Harbor was the final straw that brought the US fully into WW2. The A26, which first flew seventy years ago, was one of the products of that conflict. We are comemorating the sacrifices and contributions of America's men and women to the effort. Please join us in remembering the Greatest Generation this weekend. Saturday will be our usual team workday on Kay. The CAF is having a workday on Midnight Express (aka Buba) and then on Sunday, Dec 7th, will hold a birthday celebration for Buba along with the Pearl Harbor remembrance. It starts at 1 pm & runs until 4 pm. Cake & ice cream will be served. Special K team will hold the drawing for the aviation themed quilt at 4 pm. Drop by & enjoy all of the activities. The B29 & B24 are still in the Vintage Flying Museum hangar in Ft Worth along with Buba & Kay so there is lots to see & do. JR

Been meaning to post this here for a while now.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

Regarding the previous post concerning Maj Bates. The person on the ladder is Maj Kenneth LaFave. This photo was taken in the June/July time frame. In checking the 609th histories for late 1968, Major Bates first appears in the 609th history for Oct.-Dec 1968. It would appear that he probably arrived at NKP in November 1968. On 1 Dec he flew an orientation mission to Steel Tiger with Lt Col Doug Carmichael and Maj Loren Gierhart. By the 26th Charlie was checked out and flying with Maj Howard Andre. Page 10 of, of the units history mentions them destroying 7 trucks on the 26th despite being fired upon by numerous 37MM and ZPU guns.
I have not seen any mention of Maj Bates being the Maintenance Officer for the 609th. In Roger Graham's book "The Nimrods" there is a later photo taken sometime in 1969. I suspect Maj Bates might be in that photo but it"s difficult to make out faces in the photo.
Frank Nelson
Nimrod Oct 67/68

Jeff and Frank, thanks for the photo and the info about another of our Nims. We appreciate all of those guys so much.


On another note, we had the birthday party for Buba yesterday with a good turn out for the CAF Invader Squadron. Megan R did a great job with setting up the snacks, cakes and drinks. Buba was delivered in Dec '44. He will get the winter maintenance/makeover going soon. The squadron is looking for help from A & P's to assist in getting the inspections done and comply with an AD. It will be down for about 90 days. Hopefully, Buba, aka Midnight Express, will be operational for the next airshow season. We need more A-26's out there!!! JR

As far as I know, that pic was part of Charlie's collection. My father and Uncle knew him well. I had only met him once while visiting him after retirement at his home in fla. My father is the one that made up the picture as it hangs in his memory in a military museum here in VT. My father also knew Jaybo Hinyub, he also knew Charlie and flew with him.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

Seeing the picture that Jeff posted reminded me of this shot of the Nimrods that included George Matthews who is second from the left, front row. George put together some great shots taken over Laos back in the day and has graciously allowed us to use some of them. This one was probably taken in 1967. Looking at the nacelle air intakes that are old style or pre-tropical mod suggests the early date. Fred M. is on the far right, front row of the picture. He lives close by in Bedford. BTW, we want to wish Fred a speedy recovery. He has been out several times to see K. Frank N., do you recognize any of these other characters? Regards, JR

This is one of George's shots of the HCM Trail in Laos. There were AA guns all along the tops of the hills above the road. This made the trip to deliver the bombs for all those craters very hazardous. Numerous attempts were made to hit the top of the road cut to collapse the hillside down on the road. The NVA though kept hundreds of workers handy to clear the path as soon as the aircraft left. It must have been like a swarm of ants hitting the job with not much more than shovels and hands. It can be seen why Randy referred to Laos as the most bombed country on earth. Many NVA soldiers went south knowing they probably would not be making the return trip north. JR

Yes JR I can remember a few of those faces. The photo was taken in late February 1967. Hard to believe it's almost 48 years ago. The same photo is on the A-26 Legacy Foundation website and George ID'd everyone. I must say your posting is the clearest one I have seen. While on the subject of photographs I could really use some of the 1969 time period. If you come across any please let me know.
Frank Nelson
Nimrod Oct 1967/68

................ This made the trip to deliver the bombs for all those craters.....

Craters-----No, Jim, you got it all wrong. Those aren't craters. That's the 18,000 hole golf course we built over there. I think every hole was a Par 1 !!!!!

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Randy Ryman
Project Big Eagle
NKP Thailand 1966
http://www.coastcomp.com/av/florence/florandy.htm