Five P-38F's in Greenland - Who Wants One?

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1672

How much of the excavated P-38 do you expect to be reuseable? I presume none of the sheet metal at all, or spars, or ribs or frames, or bulkheads, or fuselage booms, or engine accessories.

Do you think most of the cast and forged bits will be OK, like gear legs and engine cores?

I don't mean to be negative at all. But what do you get here that you can re-use? How much is this different from a data-plate restoration?

Anyone who decides to get into this would have to have a balance-sheet first, to figure out cost vs final completed value.

Dave

marine air · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:26 pm

At least for these P-38s , they are there and confirmed. Not underground or in a cave somewhere and no one has actually retrieved one. It cannot be argued what they are and where.
As for saltwater, nothing after 70 years could be used on an airworthy aircraft, with these , yes some items could be re-used.

Last, could explosive charges be used to remove chunks of ice and snow? What about melting the snow? Maybe barge a load of diesel and use some surplus F-4 engines? The first time they adapted some coal mining equipment. It worked. Isn't there something better for ice and compacted snow?

Tomahawk · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:49 am **Posts:** 52

marine air - the government of Greenland (and the rest of the world, for that matter) will not take kindly to that sort of egregious water pollution.
This is a delicate matter these days, more so than in '92. If we were going all out, then a tac nuke might be the way to go... But we're not, and we're trying to "keep Greenland clean" so even burning JP4 to heat the boiler or run the generator has to be the second option.

Mr. Hadfield - We all know from the previously recovered a/c what can and cannot be reused. The parts that are not damaged from the pressure of the ice are in nearly new condition, having been sealed up airtight for the last 72 years. Zero corrosion, zero UV damage. If you need more detailed info, talk to Bob Cardin. He knows all. Aside from the props & skin, it seems most of the a/c was able to be reused, including the engines. There are very comprehensive photos of the restoration available for all to see. Aside from the McManus a/c which landed with the gear down, all the rest landed gear up, so the gear should be intact. Besides, there aren't very many of these left to fix in any condition, period.

For Everyone - This a/c is an American icon, flown by our top aces, and designed by the legendary Kelly Johnson, of later U-2 & SR-71 fame. There is no doubt their value will increase over time. The problem is they won't be recoverable once they're torn to bits by the glacier. Even a few years from now, it won't matter. They need to be recovered now, while they are still intact. We're trying to save a few bits of American history here.

These a/c are half of the total strength of the legendary 94th Fighter Squadron, Eddie Rickenbacker's legacy unit. These were our best available USAAF aircraft, flown by our best USAAF figher pilots. If memory serves, Paul Tibbets was the first B-17 pilot on Operation Bolero. This event took place barely six months after Pearl Harbor, when the German U-Boats were sinking so many of our ships that it was deemed unsafe to send them across to England on ships. Flying them over was taking a considerable risk. The total value of the six P-38's and the two B-17's to the U.S. Gov't. was over a million dollars in 1942. During the war, Lockheed built roughly 10,000 P-38's at about $100,000 per copy. That's a BILLION dollars in 1940's dollars. These early models did the hard fighting early on. Admiral Yamamoto was brought down by the very similar P-38G.

There is an entire book dedicated to the recovery of the one P-38F. All of the photos, etc. are copyrighted, so they cannot be used here without permission. Find it on Amazon, and buy it. We're not running an ad campaign for the author. We are trying to raise public awareness to the imminent loss of significant historical artifacts. Americans, in particular, do a very poor job of conserving their history. We're doing our part to reverse this trend.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:02 pm

what is needed are a couple of pre- fabricated buildings to work in so as to avoid as much of the elements of exposure as possible, rather than pup tents & sleeping bags & working in the frigid cold. this cannot be a primitive camp site for success to be achieved.

Tomahawk · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:49 am **Posts:** 52

Mr. Friedman - Sorry if anyone thought sleeping bags implied tents. We would construct igloos before we would use tents, and we're not going that route either. More to the point, no one expects this to be a resort experience. Frigid cold is difficult to avoid when you're 300' down inside an ice cube, or the wind tops 70mph on the surface for three days. You just have to deal with it. It's called "mental toughness" (aka "crazy"). The point is, we have spent extended time working in these conditions. We're accustomed to it. You won't see any of us wearing jeans or flannel, or anything made from cotton. We know better. Nothing can prepare you for the first time you get doused with subzero engine coolant or gasoline! We've all had this fun before. Broken through the lake ice a time or two as well. We'll be prepared.

A young man from England died on the ice sheet last summer when a three-day windstorm shredded the tent he shared with his two companions.
NO TENTS!

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:36 pm

i'm far from an expert on extreme wreck chases, but it sounds like you've all done extensive research thus far. best to you, tom

StCurry7 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 15

Tomahawk, what's your contact info there near Roseville Ca( Sacramento region)
Sounds like you are the go-to-guy on this project. Some might like to help out.

Tomahawk · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:49 am **Posts:** 52

PM your offers of assistance along with your contact info. Be advised we are only seeking financial assistance at this time. If there are no takers for the a/c, there is no reason to pursue this any further. We are not interested in conserving or restoring these a/c, only in their initial recovery. We have a relatively safe collateral investment strategy to shield backers from sustaining any major financial losses. We will need to find homes for the five P-38's before we proceed. There is no point in discussing any other facet of this project at this juncture.

There are relatively few individuals, or entities, who have the means, motive, and opportunity to be involved in this level of the project, most of whom we know by name. When one of you, or your representative, contacts us, we will be sure to give you our undivided attention. We look forward to a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Russ Blow · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:54 pm

Looks like I will be flying the L 4 for a few more years.

Interesting project though. Would love to see it succeed.

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Five P-38F's in Greenland - Who Wants One?

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