A trend towards more non-authentic schemes? ...

[eagle21]

Tallichet's 17 was painted as a 100BG ship for a while, if memory serves...

Hadn't thought about this picture until you said that. I took this at Redbird Airport (now Dallas Executive) in 1984 or 1985.

JMC

[SaxMan]

It would be nice if the B-17 would have been painted in a scheme other than the 1st Bomb Wing. Of the airworthy Fortresses, you have 909, Texas Raiders, Aluminum Overcast and Yankee Lady in those markings (and technically both Movie Memphis Belle and Sally B in early 91st Markings), and now we have Madras Maiden in the same markings...seven of the 9 flyers, and of those, three from 91st and three from the 381st.

With 27 bomb groups to choose from in the ETO, not to mention another six groups in the MTO, with so many unique markings, it would be nice to see a greater variety of markings on the B-17s. There were other 1st Bombardment Division schemes that were more understated (like Sentimental Journey's 457th BG markings) and tasteful, while the 3rd Bombardment Division had some very bright and colorful schemes.

Off the top of my head, I think there is only one static B-17 in 15th AF markings.

I do believe there is a greater responsibility than "my money, my toy" when you purchase something as widely recognized as a B-17, and that as a piece of "hands on history" being used to teach a younger generation should be authentic. We're not very far off from the date that the last of those who served in World War II will pass, and it will become our responsibility to teach the next generations.

BTW - I don't see anyone begrudging Joe Tobul (or Jim, bless his soul) for flying a Corsair with "JT" on the rudder. The general consensus was that with the quality of the restoration, they earned the right to put their initials on the tail.

[airnutz]

Interesting if slightly perilous discussion.

A classic that returns from time to time...Your Airplane, Our History.

[Mark Allen M]

A classic that returns from time to time...Your Airplane, Our History.

More like "Your publicly displayed Airplane, Our publicly expressed opinion" ... like I stated before it comes with the territory. I guess if you can't handle a bit of heat for a questionable decision to a piece of your property you choose to publicly display? Perhaps lock it away not to be seen by the masses might be a better option ... which we all know would be a shame of course.

I'll make it clear that I haven't read much as far as any real venom towards anyone's personal property in this thread. Just several justified opinions on someone's property that again an owner willfully chooses to publicly display to the masses. You'd be a fool to expect EVERYONE to jump for joy with enthusiasm on the results of everything you do. I've been reminded of thick skin in the past, food for thought here as well perhaps.

Believe it or not, I've viewed negative feedback many times in my world as nothing more than constructive criticism. The guy never asked any of us what we would think about his idea for artwork / scheme on his B-17 (and he certainly wasn't obligated to either) so how could he possibly think everyone would be thrilled with it.

My guess is he could give a rats-*ss what any of us think about what he does with his airplanes, ... as he shouldn't.

Being critical of someone else's property and ideas is never popular, but a part of life and sometimes works out for the better. Who knows, this may indeed be a temporary scheme. If not oh well! It's his to do as he pleases and this thread will dissolve into the abiss of the WIX archives sooner than later.

[Russ Blow]

Back when my dad and his buddies were still alive we went to a lot of airshows. They were all pilots in WW 2 and loved to talk about flying around each other. They would always admire a nice civilian painted war bird but seemed to hate those painted in period markings. I once asked my dad why and his answer " we flew the GD things during the war and want nothing to remind us of it ". They had other opinions of them none positive. They loved the aircraft but not the time in which they flew them. Of course others experience may vary.

Personally I dont care what they look like. I like to see them fly and dream of flying them myself. My L 4 is somewhat period correct but even it gets grief from purists sometimes ( the OD is not OD enough, the Gray is not right, the struts are the wrong color...blah blah.) I dont care. I just want to fly the thing.

And since Chuckie was mentioned here is my one and only pic of her. I like to buzz their field anytime I am on the way to fly down the beach. I have never been to MAM but fly over it often.

[p51]

People decry the 8th AF-centric notion of B-17 markings, but let's face facts; that's just about the only way anyone in the public knows a B-17 if they know one at all. Just like the massive % of Mustangs carrying invasion stripes.

[/quote]Looks about as '1940s' as my modern SUV in my driveway, looking like that.
Couldn't care less how pretty a model is, I'm just sick of nose art of modern-looking models and especially nose art done with airbrushes. "Sentimental Jouney's" nose art is comically over stylized for the timeframe, but at least its based on something that actually existed during WW2.
Color me seriously unimpressed with this.
This is exactly the kind of modern-looking nonsense that caused me to turn down a couple of nose art painting jobs within the past few years. I don't want to be associated with something that historically incorrect...

[Mark Allen M]

Just received an e-mail that explains a bit more and IMHO relieves the owner of any more of my wrath ...
His decision for the artwork makes much more sense to me now, although I'm not sure how well it went with a few wives and girlfriends who showed up for the unveiling.

"“Madras Maiden” will be a flying representative for the community of Madras, Oregon and the Erickson Aircraft Collection while touring the Pacific Northwest and visiting regional air shows and other aviation museums. Jack Erickson and his museum manager Mike Oliver both agreed that the new name made sense. Community Leaders in Madras, Oregon have also embraced the idea as well, and have even gone so far as to donate $5000 towards the new nose-art"

[p51]

"“Madras Maiden” will be a flying representative for the community of Madras, Oregon and the Erickson Aircraft Collection while touring the Pacific Northwest and visiting regional air shows and other aviation museums. Jack Erickson and his museum manager Mike Oliver both agreed that the new name made sense. Community Leaders in Madras, Oregon have also embraced the idea as well, and have even gone so far as to donate $5000 towards the new nose-art"

That only explains the name, and I'd bet has nothing to do with the non-40s style of nose art itself.

[Mark Allen M]

I would assume someone involved with running Madras had to have seen some sort of example before approving 5 grand being donated including Name, Girl, the whole bit. By the looks of the videos I've seen of the unveiling everyone, including women in attendance, were jumping for joy having a good ole time.

I've seen stranger things ....

[WIXMOD-Baker]

I've tidied the thread up a bit, and I thank those of you who removed off-topic material.

I don't see a need to lock the thread, so let's just keep it relevant, hey?

[airnutz]

5K seems a bit heavy for the current art work, for 5000 bux we oughta toss in a a ripping good sharks mouth and invasion stripes!

[Mark Allen M]

Be surprised how expensive an art commission is these days. I've commissioned a painting to be displayed onboard the USS Hornet Museum. Not a cheap endeavor, but well worth it.

Thanks WIXmod for cleaning up all the soft-porn and infighting.

[wendovertom]

Great thread actually - interesting to think about how the art and history go together. Personally, I am ok with it and hope that we (Historic Wendover Air museum) can get them to bring her (the plane) down here for one of our shows!

Tom P.

[Ken]

How about a hip hip hooray for some of the truly accurate paint jobs out there? Here are just a few that come to mind:

P-51's Happy Jack's Go Buggy, Upupa Epops
A-1H Lieutenant America
P-47 Snafu
Corsair(s) by John Lane
Aleutian P-40 by Fagen

If the kudos for accuracy were louder than the jilts for airbrushing, maybe there'd be some peer pressure to excel amongst warbird owners!

Not big on airbrushing,
Ken

[Chappie]

How about a hip hip hooray for some of the truly accurate paint jobs out there? Here are just a few that come to mind:

P-51's Happy Jack's Go Buggy, Upupa Epops
A-1H Lieutenant America
P-47 Snafu
Corsair(s) by John Lane
Aleutian P-40 by Fagen

If the kudos for accuracy were louder than the jilts for airbrushing, maybe there'd be some peer pressure to excel amongst warbird owners!

Not big on airbrushing,
Ken

Jerry Yagen's FM-2 Wildcat is as it appeared rolling off the Linden assembly line.

Chappie