Pic Request: Arctic SB-17G

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:20 pm

Hi All,

My Google-Fu appears weak in this case. I recently picked up model kit of an SB-17G, and was trolling the internet for pics and ran across this:

I absolutely love the scheme, but can't seem to find any other pics of either the model nor any real aircraft in similar markings. I've found plenty of pics of SB-17s with the yellow SAR markings, but none with the added red arctic trim. I would just use the pic I posted as a guide, but you can't see the numbers/markings on the nose.

Anyone? Bueller?

Thanks!

Steve

daviemax · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:56 pm

The aircraft modeled, SB-17G 44-83787, crashed in France 30 January 1949. At the time she was assigned to Rhine-Main AFB; unfortunately I do not now have further details as to her history. Not clear she actually had the arctic paint scheme as shown, but it is certainly possible. Normally, B-17s assigned to arctic regions had red tails. Three are shown below: 44-85497, RB-17G Arctic Queen which photomapped Greenland (and may have possibly Ferreted Soviet borders) during September 1947; 44-6953, a VB-17 assigned to 39th Air Depot, AAC, Ladd AFB, Alaska circa 1952; and 44-85661 which photomapped the Bering Sea area in 1949 (Project Alcan). Others include SB-17G 44-83699, which still had her red tail when positioned as a target for atomic test Buster in October 1951 (she had been assigned to Keflavik previously). Unfortunately I do not have a quality photo of this aircraft - just an image from a declassified PDF file.

daviemax · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:45 pm

Shortly after making the above post I realized, to my embarrassment, that I had overlooked the most important photo of an Arctic color scheme in my collection (obtained via the estate of the late Jeff Ethell): that of SB-17G 44-83717, shown below while serving at Goose Bay, Labrador. The clear blue sky and pure white snow create an ideal back-drop for the Arctic finish of the plane. Unfortunately no date has been established for this photo but it is likely in the 1948-52 time frame.

This aircraft also was one of the longest-serving post-war B-17s, being converted to a QB-17N and expended as a target during the last DB/QB mission of 6 August 1959 (DB was 44-83684).

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:57 pm

That color shot is a real stunner..thanks! Do you know if there would have been any letters/numbers in the yellow block on the nose? Hard to tell, but it seems blank in the photo.

And here's a question I didn't even think to ask: Would an aircraft with the arctic red trim carry a lifeboat?

It's weird..so far the pics I've come up with all have the last three digits of the s/n as palindromes: 44-82585, 44-83787, and 44-83717.

SN

daviemax · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:15 am

Steve Nelson wrote:

That color shot is a real stunner..thanks! Do you know if there would have been any letters/numbers in the yellow block on the nose? Hard to tell, but it seems blank in the photo.

And here's a question I didn't even think to ask: Would an aircraft with the arctic red trim carry a lifeboat?

It's weird..so far the pics I've come up with all have the last three digits of the s/n as palindromes: 44-82585, 44-83787, and 44-83717.

SN

Steve

Normally there would be a three-digit number in the nose data block (often, but not always, the last three digits of the aircraft serial). In the case of -717, it looks as if extra intakes for cockpit heaters have been installed in that general location, necessitating a repaint of the data block, which is shown partially-completed - at least that is a possibility.

As for lifeboats, at some point most SB-17's began operating with droppable life rafts in the bomb bay instead of the large external lifeboat. However, this change apparently happened in the early '50's whereas the photo (I now have determined) was taken during the winter of '48-'49. On the other hand, it appears that many missions carried out by SB-17's were of a general purpose nature wherein lifeboats would be optional. This could be particularly true in Arctic regions where SB-17's were often used as navigation aids for transiting aircraft (so-called "duck-butt missions").

For more detail, suggest you go to the Jeff Ethell photo website (link below) and look for the following photos: 2745; -46; and -47.

http://www.ww2color.com/nennius/webapps ... start=7060

jdanna · **Joined:** Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:43 pm **Posts:** 3

daviemax wrote:

44-85497, RB-17G Arctic Queen which photomapped Greenland (and may have possibly Ferreted Soviet borders) during September 1947

I came across this post from a bit of google searching - any chance you can get me any more info you have about this plane's (the arctic queen) history - both operationally and what became of it afterwards?

My grandfather was the pilot, but besides his old photos and a bunch of stories - its really hard to find any detailed information.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

jdanna wrote:

daviemax wrote:

44-85497, RB-17G Arctic Queen which photomapped Greenland (and may have possibly Ferreted Soviet borders) during September 1947

I came across this post from a bit of google searching - any chance you can get me any more info you have about this plane's (the arctic queen) history - both operationally and what became of it afterwards?

My grandfather was the pilot, but besides his old photos and a bunch of stories - its really hard to find any detailed information.

Jdanna,

If you have any old photo's of the B-17's in your grandfather's collection, I believe many here may find them very interesting if were kind enough to share them and post them up. If the photos have backstories that would be great also. That may also help to joggle some memories from the readers who may have something to add that you may find helpful.

Thanks....John

jdanna · **Joined:** Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:43 pm **Posts:** 3

CoastieJohn wrote:

Jdanna,

If you have any old photo's of the B-17's in your grandfather's collection, I believe many here may find them very interesting if were kind enough to share them and post them up. If the photos have backstories that would be great also. That may also help to joggle some memories from the readers who may have something to add that you may find helpful.

Thanks....John

http://1drv.ms/1uOd8bN

Here's all I've got digitized at the moment.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

jdanna wrote:

CoastieJohn wrote:

Jdanna,

If you have any old photo's of the B-17's in your grandfather's collection, I believe many here may find them very interesting if were kind enough to share them and post them up. If the photos have backstories that would be great also. That may also help to joggle some memories from the readers who may have something to add that you may find helpful.

Thanks....John

http://1drv.ms/1uOd8bN

Here's all I've got digitized at the moment.

Thank you so very much. Excellent collection you grandfather put together!!!!! Some of the other readers should have some input on this collection.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Jdanna,

I recognize the name of one of the Eskimos your grandfather took pictures of. One of my Coast Guard friends was the CO of the LORAN station near Thule just after your grandfather was there. He is still friends with the Peary family up there and may recognize some of the people in your grandfather's pictures. The first CO of BW-8 circa 41'/42' was famous Arctic/Antarctic explorer COL Bernt Balchen.

Once again, thank you very much for sharing your grandfather's fantastic pictures!!! If you decide to post up more I will look forward to seeing them.

John

jdanna · **Joined:** Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:43 pm **Posts:** 3

daviemax - i got your PM but i cant respond - since i just made the account, i dont have permissions to PM.
can you email me joeydanna at gmail dot com ?

daviemax · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:53 pm

jdanna wrote:

daviemax - i got your PM but i cant respond - since i just made the account, i dont have permissions to PM.
can you email me joeydanna at gmail dot com ?

Will do.

daviemax · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:28 pm

jdanna wrote:

daviemax wrote:

44-85497, RB-17G Arctic Queen which photomapped Greenland (and may have possibly Ferreted Soviet borders) during September 1947

I came across this post from a bit of google searching - any chance you can get me any more info you have about this plane's (the arctic queen) history - both operationally and what became of it afterwards?

My grandfather was the pilot, but besides his old photos and a bunch of stories - its really hard to find any detailed information.

Artic Queen was RB-17G serial 44-85497. She was assigned to the 55th Strategic Reconnaissance Group which flew out of MacDill AFB until transferred to Forbes AFB. She had at least two deployments to Thule - one in 1947 and one in 1949. I just obtained a copy of her record card and will decode that in detail soon and repost here. However we know she was salvaged at Hill AFB with reclamation completed 7 Nov 49. More to come.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:24 pm

Thanks Joey for posting that terrific album!

The B-17F, 42-6185, was one of a small batch of photo-recon conversions:

Joe Baugher wrote:

(42-)6185 converted to F-9B photo recon aircraft with cameras added and all bombing equipment removed. Reclamation completed MacDill Nov 18, 1947

Dave, was this plane the last F model in Air Force service?

daviemax · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:04 am

Chris Brame wrote:

Thanks Joey for posting that terrific album!

The B-17F, 42-6185, was one of a small batch of photo-recon conversions:

Joe Baugher wrote:

(42-)6185 converted to F-9B photo recon aircraft with cameras added and all bombing equipment removed. Reclamation completed MacDill Nov 18, 1947

Dave, was this plane the last F model in Air Force service?

Hi Chris. According to my records, at least two B-17F models were still in the active inventory through the end of 1948: 41-24500 and 42-29857, both of which were reported reclaimed on 7 Jan 49. The former aircraft appears to be a CB (I just located a very rare and fuzzy photo of her); the latter was a weather-reconnaissance RB-17F for which I do not yet have a photo. This aircraft was not an original F-9B - it was converted for weather recon after serving in combat with the 99th BG.

A few other F-models were in the post-war inventory. Some were designated F-9B's like 42-6185 and a few others appear to be either TB's or CB's. These were all reclaimed in 1948 or before. Today's surviving F-models were in civilian hands already.

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Pic Request: Arctic SB-17G

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