Cockpit and restorations
Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:27 am
C-130 flying simulator.. not seen everyday by people
A actual WW2 Mustang cockpit under rebuild here
A actual WW2 Mustang cockpit under rebuild here
Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:01 am
Does the C-130 flight simulator still work? I have not seen one of those!
Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:37 am
Holedigger wrote:Does the C-130 flight simulator still work? I have not seen one of those!
That C-130 Simulator is VERY old school. I'm guessing 1960's. The C-130E on the side is a big clue to it's age. It would be neat to see the interior. Very interesting picture...
Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:54 am
Yea the 130 sim had to be towed around on a flat bed while the Flight Engineer made motor boat noises to simulate engines. That is why they call him an "Engineer"!!!!
My favorite part is making the wheels touching down sound at the end of every flight in the parking lot.
The APU was just me whining for having to make motor boat noises on a 6 hour pilot proficency mission.
My favorite part is making the wheels touching down sound at the end of every flight in the parking lot.
The APU was just me whining for having to make motor boat noises on a 6 hour pilot proficency mission.
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:54 pm
Was browsing the 'net actually looking for anything about the C-130 simulators the AF use to have and saw this familiar old picture.
That pic of a 130 Sim out at the Minn Air Nat Guard Museum was one of eight "hybird" Analog/Digital boxes that the USAF had bought back in 1960. Date isn't exact since I long ago forgot when they were made, but it was between '58 & '62. They were originally delivered to the following locations:
S/N 62180001 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180002 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180003 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180004 - McChord AFB
S/N 62180005 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180006 - Eglin AFB
S/N 62180007 - Dyess AFB
S/N 62180008 - Pope AFB
Of the eight, I was most familiar with old '0008 since I was assigned directly from Sim School at Chanute AFB to Pope AFB to work on this box. The sims, built by Singer-Link, were mostly Analog design, but also incorporated a "Digital Function Generator" (a simple digital computer) that took care of the complex power changes of the engine when they were above 98% RPM and in flight. All of them were replaced in '82 with new digital C-130 sim's, also built by Singer-link, and '0008 was eventually disassembled by North Carolina ANG folks and taken to Charlotte's ANG base to be reassembled and used to train their reservist pilots. I lost track of it after it was moved there and never found out if they ever did get it back together. Not sure if this is old 0008 or not, looks like one of the others since we have a car nut that took the black radome and polished it to a high gloss finish and this one looks like it has the original satin black finish.
If you're interested in seeing more pics of this type sim and it's digital replacement - go to:
http://www.blueovalcorral.com/gallery2/ ... emId=11260
That pic of a 130 Sim out at the Minn Air Nat Guard Museum was one of eight "hybird" Analog/Digital boxes that the USAF had bought back in 1960. Date isn't exact since I long ago forgot when they were made, but it was between '58 & '62. They were originally delivered to the following locations:
S/N 62180001 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180002 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180003 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180004 - McChord AFB
S/N 62180005 - Little Rock AFB
S/N 62180006 - Eglin AFB
S/N 62180007 - Dyess AFB
S/N 62180008 - Pope AFB
Of the eight, I was most familiar with old '0008 since I was assigned directly from Sim School at Chanute AFB to Pope AFB to work on this box. The sims, built by Singer-Link, were mostly Analog design, but also incorporated a "Digital Function Generator" (a simple digital computer) that took care of the complex power changes of the engine when they were above 98% RPM and in flight. All of them were replaced in '82 with new digital C-130 sim's, also built by Singer-link, and '0008 was eventually disassembled by North Carolina ANG folks and taken to Charlotte's ANG base to be reassembled and used to train their reservist pilots. I lost track of it after it was moved there and never found out if they ever did get it back together. Not sure if this is old 0008 or not, looks like one of the others since we have a car nut that took the black radome and polished it to a high gloss finish and this one looks like it has the original satin black finish.
If you're interested in seeing more pics of this type sim and it's digital replacement - go to:
http://www.blueovalcorral.com/gallery2/ ... emId=11260
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:12 am
Very cool way to revive a thread!
Although the photos say "AWADS #1", was that at the start of the mod, as I don't see anything AWADS about that cockpit, unless that year/version differed from what AWADS looked like in the 90's?
I passed through Little Rock in the winter of '92 to train in the C-130E and finished up in 2012 with about 4000 hours in the Herk, primarily the H-model. I don't recall too many sim specifics from '92, however they most-likely would have been the post-1982 digital versions you mention. They had rudimentary all-night visuals, IIRC. The training was excellent. One thing often forgotten about sims are their ability to replicate unique engine & system malfunctions. Although we often think of the "dial a disaster" where things pop up and the crew struggles to cope, the best training occurs when the IP says, "Let's look at the subtle difference between a throttle cable failure and a TD amp malfunction" and then sets it up so the students can relax, watch, and soak in the event without time pressure or distraction. The gauge indications, even the nuance of needle flicker, are essentially identical to the real thing. The effectiveness of sim training has more to do with the syllabus and IP/IF and less to do with the box itself. Unfortunately, we've seen the AF water down this program as it seeks to mirror the style of the airlines. We went from "building the airplane" in class years ago to "green line good, red line bad" today. Not even two-engine scenarios in the refresher sim.
As an airline guy, our training is also top notch, but the AF bosses seem to forget that when I have an engine issue in the Boeing, I give it to maintenance folks regardless of where I land. Given the same issue in a Herk, it may be me and the crew at a forward strip and if we don't either fix it or otherwise figure out how to work around it, we could be stuck in less-than-hospitable circumstances for an extended time; all that knowledge gained in the sim can come in handy on occasion!
Incidentally, the Herk sims, as of 2010, are vastly improved (specifically the C-130H2/3 at Dobbins in ATL). Color 24-hour visuals, terrain to fly low level, NVG compatibility, formation, airdrop, SKE, enemy threats, you name it. Very impressive but nowhere without the grandaddy device pictured above.
Ken
Although the photos say "AWADS #1", was that at the start of the mod, as I don't see anything AWADS about that cockpit, unless that year/version differed from what AWADS looked like in the 90's?
I passed through Little Rock in the winter of '92 to train in the C-130E and finished up in 2012 with about 4000 hours in the Herk, primarily the H-model. I don't recall too many sim specifics from '92, however they most-likely would have been the post-1982 digital versions you mention. They had rudimentary all-night visuals, IIRC. The training was excellent. One thing often forgotten about sims are their ability to replicate unique engine & system malfunctions. Although we often think of the "dial a disaster" where things pop up and the crew struggles to cope, the best training occurs when the IP says, "Let's look at the subtle difference between a throttle cable failure and a TD amp malfunction" and then sets it up so the students can relax, watch, and soak in the event without time pressure or distraction. The gauge indications, even the nuance of needle flicker, are essentially identical to the real thing. The effectiveness of sim training has more to do with the syllabus and IP/IF and less to do with the box itself. Unfortunately, we've seen the AF water down this program as it seeks to mirror the style of the airlines. We went from "building the airplane" in class years ago to "green line good, red line bad" today. Not even two-engine scenarios in the refresher sim.
As an airline guy, our training is also top notch, but the AF bosses seem to forget that when I have an engine issue in the Boeing, I give it to maintenance folks regardless of where I land. Given the same issue in a Herk, it may be me and the crew at a forward strip and if we don't either fix it or otherwise figure out how to work around it, we could be stuck in less-than-hospitable circumstances for an extended time; all that knowledge gained in the sim can come in handy on occasion!Incidentally, the Herk sims, as of 2010, are vastly improved (specifically the C-130H2/3 at Dobbins in ATL). Color 24-hour visuals, terrain to fly low level, NVG compatibility, formation, airdrop, SKE, enemy threats, you name it. Very impressive but nowhere without the grandaddy device pictured above.
Ken
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:57 am
By the reference of "AWADS #1", I believe you're referring to my photos of one of the two prototypes that went to Pope AFB in '84. I was one of the first two from Pope that went to the HSI (Hardware-Software Integration) of that sim at Singer Links plant in Binghamton, N.Y. I managed to get permission to photograph the sim so we could take photos back to the rest of the troops to show them what we would be getting in a few months. This was a feat that took several weeks getting permission from SL management since there was so much security at that plant. All I was allowed to take were pics of that on Sim and I wasn't to get any others in the view. Awads #2 was directly in front and facing AWADS #1 with Dyess's H model 130 to AWADS #1 right and Australia AF had theirs to our left.
The AWADS 130's were different from the "dumb birds" at Little Rock. We had an additional third CPU (Perkin Emler/Interdata 8/32 model) because of the additional computational needs of the AWADS package and our DRLMS system was more sophisticated (ie; higher resolution) than the simple weather radar of the Little Rock 130's. Dyess's 130 also required a third CPU because of the additional radio station equipment that 130 carried back where the crew bunks were located. Eventually all new digital 130's were upgraded to a third CPU, since the two CPU setup was pushing the parameters to their limits, but that happened after I got out in early '86.
Once our two were delivered and accepted at Pope, the AF bought a single visual system for installation on AWADS #2. Not sure why they went with #2 and not #1. System was provided by GE Visual Systems out of Daytona, Fla. (now part of Lockheed Martin in Orlando). IIRC it as a generation IV system, crude visualation using poly shapes for todays times, but state of the art back in '84.
BTW - AWADS stood for All Weather Aerial Delivery System - it was half of the C-141's inertial navigation system packed into a C-130. When it worked (memory drum kept crashing due to age), it would allow you to drop cargo anywhere in any kind of weather. C-130's at Pope that were AWADS equipped were called "Smart Birds" and those without were "Dumb Birds".
The AWADS 130's were different from the "dumb birds" at Little Rock. We had an additional third CPU (Perkin Emler/Interdata 8/32 model) because of the additional computational needs of the AWADS package and our DRLMS system was more sophisticated (ie; higher resolution) than the simple weather radar of the Little Rock 130's. Dyess's 130 also required a third CPU because of the additional radio station equipment that 130 carried back where the crew bunks were located. Eventually all new digital 130's were upgraded to a third CPU, since the two CPU setup was pushing the parameters to their limits, but that happened after I got out in early '86.
Once our two were delivered and accepted at Pope, the AF bought a single visual system for installation on AWADS #2. Not sure why they went with #2 and not #1. System was provided by GE Visual Systems out of Daytona, Fla. (now part of Lockheed Martin in Orlando). IIRC it as a generation IV system, crude visualation using poly shapes for todays times, but state of the art back in '84.
BTW - AWADS stood for All Weather Aerial Delivery System - it was half of the C-141's inertial navigation system packed into a C-130. When it worked (memory drum kept crashing due to age), it would allow you to drop cargo anywhere in any kind of weather. C-130's at Pope that were AWADS equipped were called "Smart Birds" and those without were "Dumb Birds".
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:10 pm
Ken wrote:Incidentally, the Herk sims, as of 2010, are vastly improved (specifically the C-130H2/3 at Dobbins in ATL). Color 24-hour visuals, terrain to fly low level, NVG compatibility, formation, airdrop, SKE, enemy threats, you name it. Very impressive but nowhere without the grandaddy device pictured above.
Ken
I was the USCG's Enlisted Aircrew PM for 4 years. We were sending our enlisted FE's and Pilots to the SIM at CAE, Inc in Tampa, FL. They did H's and J's. Very impressive SIM.
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:15 am
I missed answering one part of Ken's comment - the reason the AWADS parts of the sim are missing in the factory photos is because they were not integrated in the sim build until after it was delivered to Pope. The Singer Link DRLMS (Digital Radar Land Mass Simulator) was a fairly new system in '82 and was built in their Sunnyvale, Ca., factory while the actual sim was built in Binghamton, N.Y. When the two were integrated as the sim was put back together at Pope, the extra AWADS panels and two special scopes were installed in the cockpit.
Singer Link did a great job of copying the actual C-130 #1263 (now mothballed at the Nevada A/C storage facility). My wife, being a AF radar tech, wondered if one of the navigators ever would try to sneak a pair of the "Miss Piggy" cartoons, similiar to what was on the nav station desk on the actual bird, under the plexiglass of each of the navigator station desks in AWADS #1 & AWADS #2. Old #1263 got a reputation of being called "Miss Piggy" because it had the highest failure AWADS system in a C-130!
Singer Link did a great job of copying the actual C-130 #1263 (now mothballed at the Nevada A/C storage facility). My wife, being a AF radar tech, wondered if one of the navigators ever would try to sneak a pair of the "Miss Piggy" cartoons, similiar to what was on the nav station desk on the actual bird, under the plexiglass of each of the navigator station desks in AWADS #1 & AWADS #2. Old #1263 got a reputation of being called "Miss Piggy" because it had the highest failure AWADS system in a C-130!
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:19 am
CoastieJohn wrote:Ken wrote:Incidentally, the Herk sims, as of 2010, are vastly improved (specifically the C-130H2/3 at Dobbins in ATL). Color 24-hour visuals, terrain to fly low level, NVG compatibility, formation, airdrop, SKE, enemy threats, you name it. Very impressive but nowhere without the grandaddy device pictured above.
Ken
I was the USCG's Enlisted Aircrew PM for 4 years. We were sending our enlisted FE's and Pilots to the SIM at CAE, Inc in Tampa, FL. They did H's and J's. Very impressive SIM.
CAE must have really improved over the years, maybe from an influx of experienced Singer Link folks who lost jobs as contracts dried up. Back in '86, CAE was considered one of the worst Flight Sim companies to work for - use to say the initials stood for "Crappy Assed Electronics"!
(Actually - Reflectone was considered the worst - ex-sim guys who went to work for them referred to the company name as ReJectTone.)
Re: Cockpit and restorations
Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:16 pm
Interesting info on the C-130 mission flight sim.
I was stationed at Pope AFB from August 66 until august 69 and was assigned to the C-130E Mission Flight Simulator. All apart of the 464th Combat Support Group, 9th AF. AF-0495T was the call sign and we had a SMK-23 visual attatachment and a radar trainer for scope presntations in the cockpit. Full motion. All systems on line for the tme I was assigned there. My job assignment was nite maintenace and it took a lot.
Should anyone need any more info let me know. I can supply names of the crew and provide copies of the special base newspaper about the simulator system.
Thanks for listening to an old geezer who has fond m,emories of Pope AFB.
john Owen
703 930-3763
johno@qcom1.com
I was stationed at Pope AFB from August 66 until august 69 and was assigned to the C-130E Mission Flight Simulator. All apart of the 464th Combat Support Group, 9th AF. AF-0495T was the call sign and we had a SMK-23 visual attatachment and a radar trainer for scope presntations in the cockpit. Full motion. All systems on line for the tme I was assigned there. My job assignment was nite maintenace and it took a lot.
Should anyone need any more info let me know. I can supply names of the crew and provide copies of the special base newspaper about the simulator system.
Thanks for listening to an old geezer who has fond m,emories of Pope AFB.
john Owen
703 930-3763
johno@qcom1.com