Warbird Information Exchange

Looking for input on some future planning projects here at the Alberta Aviation Museum.

The are all kinds of Museums...

Art Galleries
Small artifact Museums
Large artifact Museums
Some with few to no real artifacts...

There are Science and Technology Museums
Natural History Museums
Cultural and Sports Museums
Some are archives....
Some places for discussion...

Some are simply collections.

There are museums where you are expected to view the exhibits quietly with your hands in your pockets whispering.

There are museums that are highly interactive, videos, music, re enactors and living history that are noisier, louder and more active/engaging.

Even the History/Heritage community has a tough time defining what a museum is past the core functions. Different segments of the History/Heritage community having different opinions.

So to the point...

In your highly biased personal opinion...what makes a good museum?

Should a museum be a place for families and children or just adults?

Should it be a place for all or a place for scholars, academics and research or somewhere in between?

Is a collection a museum?

Inquiring minds want to know.

To all joining the discussion

There are no right or wrong comments here.

This is about your opinion...not mine or anyone else.

I think it is important to understand what everyone thinks and what they view as important on the topic.

Tom H

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Tom, thanks for the chance to chime in.

I am a 46 year old, male, aviation enthusiast. My wife and kids do not share my passion (Mrs. Sandiego89 thinks a spitfire and hurricane look the same! ). I usually go to museums and collection on my own, and that gives me the time to spend on what I like.

I prefer aircraft, helo's and jets from the 1940 to modern period. Less interested in pre-WWII and absolutely no interest in general aviation or sport flying (pitts, extras, etc). Large civil props and jets, and trash haulers are of interest.

I also enjoy other historical sites: battlefields, industrial sites, military bases.

For other museums I like industrial type museums, science centers, etc, but enjoyed them more when my kids were younger.

So my likes:
- Large artifacts. Airplanes, helicopters, engines, vehicles, ships, weapons.
- unrestricted acces to aircraft on display. No I don't want to climb in them or on them, but I dislike ropes and fences. I like to walk around and under if I can. I understand the liabilty and damge concerns by careless visitors.
- Collections are fine. Collections are a museum.
- Dark and dusty preferred over squeaky clean. There is something magic about being in a place that feels you are in on a secret. Makes it seems like a working environment. My experinces at the Garber annex, Rhode Island and Chino are the best examples of this. The museum at Santa Monica was squeaky clean and made me feel like I was in some rich guys garage and was uninviting.
- quiet over loud
- Operational appearing aircraft. Oil stains, drips on the floor. Unrestored, or partial airframes are fine. I prefer flying aircraft, but I get not all should be or will be flown.
- Inside and outside display are fine. Boneyards are great (in the right climates)
- Open cockpit displays on occasion. Sit in a nose section, proceedures trainer.
- cut away displays of aircraft.
- major sub- componants on display- weapons, turrets, engines, ejection sets, etc.
- Some stuff you and the kids can touch.

Dislikes:
- aircraft hung from the rafters. Can't see them up there.
- ropes/barricades.
- period music.
- airshow announcers who don't shut up when a merlin is screaming by.
- Squeeky clean. Great for an art museum, not an aviation or industrial museum.
- docents who hound you. Yes I know they are passionate, but I sometimes know more than them. Not saying this in arrogance, I just sometimes don't need to be told some things. I know they are there if I want to talk.

Not too interested in:
- Simulator rides, IMAX, hands on stuff. Great for the kids, but I am passed that age.
- art
- small memrobelia. Flight related equipment and clothing is OK, but not too interested in year books, log books, china, swords, china, standard uniforms, etc.

Could care less about:
- Photography. I don't take photos so could care less about optimal lighting (I know some a VERY passionate about this, but you said you wanted bias!)
- re-enactors.
- life on the homefront stuff.
- interactive stuff. Again great for a science and industry museum.

Standing by for incoming!!!!!

Twenty-five year old enthusiast here, been going to aviation museums since I was two years old. I also enjoy museums that showcase automobiles and ships. Not much of a military vehicle guy.

The biggest thing for me is presentation and access to the aircraft or other artifacts. Being able to get a close and unobstructed view of whatever I want to look at is the most important aspect of any visit to a museum. There's nothing more disappointing than going to an aircraft museum and seeing a particular aircraft I want to see stuffed in a corner or between aircraft, and with barriers or displays arranged in a way that make it difficult to see the aircraft well. There haven't been too many places I've been where this is an issue. This is one thing I'm continually impressed with at the NMUSAF- the aircraft are arranged in such a way that it's easy to get a good look at nearly every aircraft in the collection. I don't have a problem with aircraft suspended from the ceiling as long as there is a walkway that allows one to get fairly close to the aircraft and get a nice view. If no walkway is available, suspending the aircraft at an angle usually solves this.

Another important aspect is the condition of the aircraft/artifacts. I don't want to look at things that aren't properly cared for. I understand places with limited resources- paint will fade on outdoor displays, etc. That doesn't matter as much as long as it's clear the museum is making the effort to keep the aircraft clean, bird-proofed, etc. Late last summer, I went to an outdoor display of aircraft in North Carolina and came away impressed with the way the aircraft were cared for, even though paint schemes were fading. It just has to be clear that the museum is using their resources to take care of their artifacts.

Photography isn't a big issue for me. If I can take pictures, great, if not, no big deal. Lighting doesn't matter. I hear people complain about the lighting at NMUSAF, but I love it- keeps the focus on the aircraft and makes for a dramatic and focused experience IMO. I'm indifferent towards simulators, iMAX, etc. That stuff is ok once in awhile, but I'm not going to go out of my way to do that stuff. Also am a big fan of turrets, cockpits, etc. as long as they're not in the way of the major displays.

The biggest turn-off for me is docents who will not leave me alone. I don't know what it is about me, but I seem to be a magnet for these people. I appreciate a couple stories, but I don't want to be followed around the entire museum and I don't need to hear why the Corsair has bent wings for the 10-billionth time. Maybe it's because I look like a young guy who can't possibly have been learning about aviation 20-plus years, but I seem to magnet for people that want to talk my ear off. I appreciate the job docents do, but I like to have space. If I have a question, I will come find you.

That's about all I've got, but I'm interested to hear what other people think.

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Matt

Tom--

Excellent discussion topic. I may chime in multiple times as I think of other points...First off, though:

1. Focus. I realize not all museums have the luxury (i.e. cash) to hew tightly to a specific collection mandate, but for those that do, it's essential. One of my favourites from that standpoint is the Canadian Bushplane Heritage Centre in Sault Ste-Marie, Ontario...built up on limited means, it is nevertheless unequivocally a display about bush flying and aerial firefighting and really nothing else, and a very fine collection of relevant airframes and artifacts has been put together. Additionally, there are volumes of support documentation presented with each airframe or other exhibit; with nary a docent in sight you can learn a ton there.

2. Atmosphere. CBHC scores very high here, too: all those bushplanes reside in a classic 1920s-vintage seaplane hangar right on the lake. That, of course, is fortuitous for CBHC (though doubtless the reason the museum is in that location to begin with), but still, it adds a great deal to the back-in-time experience. Similarly, in some ways I prefer the memory of the CWH collection in the old BCATP hangars over the "new" building...I used to work there back in the 80s, and once in a while I'll actually have a dream set at Mt.Hope, which invariably features Hangars 3 and 4...in my subconscious world the new building, nice (and, er, more fireproof) as it is, doesn't exist! One can, of course, build a nostalgic facility from new just as one can build a new Yak, FW190, Spitfire, et al. The beautiful retro-styled hangar built new by Vintage Wings of Canada at Gatineau is a prime case in point, though not technically a museum.

3. Space. My inveterate-shutterbug proclivities kick in here. Even a building that fosters a proper contextual atmosphere can be a bust if the actual exhibits are stuffed in in a manner that prevents them from being properly seen (and/or photographed; I do consider that important too, but that's my bias). A prime, unfortunate, example of this problem is the recently-built Canadian War Museum. Their rare Spitfire IIB, when still in the old building, was crammed in against a wall with one wing removed, and with a pretty frightful-looking mural (featuring what I can only describe as a caricature of a Spitfire) as a backdrop. I thought at the time it wouldn't be possible to display the poor Spit in a worse way. Wrong. Now she's crammed up in the rafters--literally--and really can't even be seen fully, never mind photographed. Conversely, the CWM building itself is full of bleak, jagged, angular shapes, very nicely evoking the brutal nature of warfare. I really like the architecture. The exhibit design, on the other hand, is sometimes lacking, and never more so than in the case of the Spitfire.

That'll do for the moment...

S.

For me I like a museum to have atmosphere. This can be all sorts of ways I liked the lighting at the RAFM, I enjoy the packed in feel of the Yorkshire Air museum and I also loved the story
Of Cosford's Cold War building. Duxford is fantastic never know what to expect there's always something happening. My favourite non aviation museums are Beamish and the Black Country Living Museum I wonder if this is possible with an Air Museum different to Duxford in that the focus is on the buildings and the people?

Thanks to everyone that has responded and please do keep the comments and thoughts coming.

This question has been posted on a variety of different internet forums and facebook as we are wanting to gather as much information on what visitors like, value, don't like, expect etc.

So again please keep the thoughts coming...there are no wrong answers and I hope it helps other museums as well.

kalamazookid







I can appreciate this and so can our staff. One of our most recommended staff members (my daughter) is 22, grow up in aviation and has degrees in History and Poly Sci as well as glider and power licenses...she gets it when she travels to other museums and I can pretty much guarantee she knows more than most of the tour guides (at least with Canadian Aviation History).

So we have all staff/volunteers (of all ages) briefed and trained to be very aware that age is not the best indicator of knowledge and how to best approach folks to help, tour and make their experience an enjoyable one.

Appreciate your bluntness on the topic

Tom H

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Excellent topic!!!

I look back at the museums I've been too...aviation, western, natural, etc and can think of a few things. Maybe more later.

1. I do like to take pics/vids if something catches my eye.
2. I like the air temp to be cool. Been in one museum in August and it was uncomfortable.
3. If an artifact has a genealogy, I like to see it on a placard with the item on display. For example....if this "pearl-handled Colt was given to Jimmy Doolittle on May 1st, 1940 by the owner of Colt Industries, Mr John Doe".............I find it interesting to know that this item was given to that person on that date.
4. Having distinguished guests visit for a presentation or autographs is cool.
5. If it is a large museum, benches/tables to sit down and rest or maybe have a drink are good. It's real good if you have elderly visitors. They will remember that.
6. Good lighting on artifacts in display cases.
7. Hours that are good for working folks.
8. Not over-priced.

I guess it's the subject matter but I really like the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody, WY. Looks like it expanded since I was there last but here's the website. Might be able to get some ideas from there.

http://centerofthewest.org/

I ran this one past the wife, who is a photographer and museum connoisseur. I agreed with her on just about all of her points.

In no particular order

-Large exhibits spread out far enough to be seen as individual items - aids in examining them as well as taking pictures

-Large aircraft on short plinths - Pima's SR-71 being a prime example. It allows you to get close to the airplane, provides space for associated exhibits and give a different perspective.

-Raised and/or multi-level viewing areas. The gun collection on the second floor at Evergreen gives a great place to get a sense of the whole collection and a vantage point for photos.

-Vignettes - set dressing that puts the exhibits in place and time, like carrier decks at MOF, or the garage backdrops at car museums. Ditto well done diorama displays.

-Natural light if possible - Evergreen is a good example

-Interactive displays that are actually interactive. Powered cutaways, moving displays (the landing gear of a P-40/Corsair/Skyraider cycling in a display case would be great) Cockpit mock-ups and such. The latter giving family photo ops too.

-Most short film/video displays are a waste of time and space. At best they provide a resting spot, but that would be better served by benches throughout.

-A good cafe/coffee shop/snack bar. Emphasis on the good part. Everyone expects the prices in a museum to be high, but the quality of goods and services needs to be high as well. An overpriced crappy hotdog or bad coffee will drive a patron to leave for lunch or the nearest Starbucks and they won't be back. A good but pricey (high perceived value) sandwich or latte will give the patron a chance to take a break, regroup, stick around and not make a bee-line through the gift shop on the way to the parking lot.

- Gift shop. The gift shop needs to have site specific items that you can only get there. Barrie Clark's spitfire painting may be beautiful, but you can get it anywhere. T-shirts are always a classic. Coffee mugs are good (but pop for real fired graphics, not cafepress/zazzle ones that don't survive the dishwasher!) Pins ans patches. Personally I'm a sucker for the penny rolling machines.

possibly more later

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Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

Seems this thread may have run its course so I just wanted to say a thank you to all that contributed to this point.

Tom H

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

One that sells stuff that is not needed rather than send it to scrap.

For information to all that participated:

This exact same question has been posted on a number of forum sites (local, regional, USA focused and UK/Europe) as well as a number of facebook sites I am associated with. With the sites ranging from personal through general interest to special interest.

The question has resulted in a surprising number (at least to me) replies and 2000+ views of the question as of this Monday morning.

What I have found very insightful, considering the diverse range of places it has been posted, is the consistency in the "meat" of the comments.

The majority, regardless of region, country, focused interest or general interest are looking for the same things in a museum (of pretty much every type).

All of the comments are being used to create an information base for future planning, additional research as well as the basis for ongoing visitor consultation and sharing with other museums and heritage institutions.

Been an interesting project

Thank you everyone again

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

I found this most interesting. Entering my 8th year of volunteer service at the NMUSAF the responses were both interesting and of interest.

Last Friday, the 23rd, I spent the morning as the Museum "Greeter" in the main lobby (as opposed to my normal Korea/SEA Gallery) welcoming visitors and assisting in whatever necessary to help ensure their visit would be an enjoyable one.

For those of you who have visited the museum, you are aware of the physical size as well as the number of airplanes and exhibits we have. Needless to say the questions from first time museum visitors were many.

Here's an interesting question I received from two different visitors. "Where can I find the Hound Dog missle"?

Jerry

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Jerry
S/Sgt. - USAF Radio Operator '52-'56
C-119 "Flying Boxcar" - Korea & Japan

Volunteer: National Museum of the US Air Force (2007-2016)
LTM 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association

Tom,

I found the answers to this very ineteresting as I am a volunteer at Vintage Wings and apparently am one of those hated characters that talks too much. The comments here did highlight the need to start the conversation by learning what the interest/knowledge of the guest is. We tend to try to keep a close eye on visitors, even if they aren't being guided due to the fact, as someone else mentioned, that VWC isn't a museum and there are hazards of a working hangar. There aren't any fences or ropes, but the flip side is that there are tow bars, pitot tubes, props and all sorts of stuff to trip on, bang into, etc..

As a visitor to museums I like the environment that we have at VWC or CWH (another flying operation) where you can get to and around the aircraft, but I can understand the layout at the national collection. The CASM is particularly bad in terms of being able to get near the planes, but with the number of out of control kids that the place sees on a regular basis I can why see the controls are required. It would be nice if one could arrange private tours where the rules where different, however being a GOC operation there is only one set of rules.

BTW, what are you guys going to do now that you are located in a housing development instead of on an airport?

Terry

I like the aviation museums where the airplanes fly, at least some of them, at least some of the time.

If they are purely static, I will visit once, out of curiosity, but rarely twice.

For me, flying is nearly everything.

Dave

Well times are interesting...hence the research.

We spent the years from 2011 to 2013 adapting our business model and growing/adapting the collection based on the assurances by the elected officials of the City of Edmonton we would have the space to continue to operate and grow.

Those assurances did not come to fruition as of August last year. We are contained to our property line without the traditional access to the airport areas we used for both aviation and non aviation large events.

This as you can imagine was tremendously damaging for going forward.

In addition when our furnaces are replaced in the 24months (+/-) our restoration area has to move offsite and will need to be converted to other uses.

Add in the building we are in we have a complex lease with the City of Edmonton for until 2017 (was a 20 year lease). So far we have been unable to have the lease renewed.

Negotiations with the City of Edmonton are ongoing, as they have been since 2010, and should come to a head shortly with some definitive answers.

To deal with some of the issues a new museum is in the process of being created.

The Alberta Flying Heritage Museum, a completely separate museum with a different society and separate board, that will be located at Edmonton Villeneuve airport 24minutes from downtown Edmonton.

This facility will absorb our flying aircraft, the static aircraft that can no longer be accommodated at the Edmonton City Centre Airport site as well as our restoration area with room to continue to grow the collection under our original mandate of Alberta and the North (Civilian and Military).

If negotiations are successful with the City of Edmonton our current site in an original double/double BCATP hangar (a designated historic site) will be restricted to the history of Edmonton's Blatchford Field only and become a relatively traditional static museum.

The Alberta Flying Heritage Museum is intended to tell the larger story, a whole new level of interactive, return to hosting visiting aircraft (like VWoC, CWH and CAF), fly ins, airshows and other non aviation large events as well as expanded education and trades programming.

Plus our flying collection which we are going to be expanding dramatically.

Final scope and scale to be determined on conclusion of negotiations with the City of Edmonton on the current site.

So that's the (current) plan pending anymore radical changes imposed from the outside.

So I have taken Tim Allen's quote from Galaxy Quest to heart...Never give up, Never Surrender!

In my highly biased personal opinion...

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society