Warbird Information Exchange

Mentioned in another thread, I thought this might be worth posting in a new thread as it's a good video of how practice and planning and preparedness saved a warbird pilot's life. Hopefully this may be food for thought for others and help save lives in the future.

Background - German-based Mustang 'Big Beautiful Doll' D-FBBD was involved in a low-level collision at the Flying Legends airshow at Duxford in 2011. The pilot, experienced UK warbird pilot Rob Davies, baled out successfully, and survived. The Mustang was effectively destroyed. The other aircraft in the collision, a Douglas Skyraider, was damaged, losing a length of wing, performed an uncontrolled roll, but was landed safely and later repaired.

The point of this post is Rob talking about the how and why he acted as he did and thus why he survived. That video is here (Ignore the usual inaccurate news-lead in):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQsJS7zQOM

Here is the link to the British Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (AAIB) summary report:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bul ... f_azdp.cfm

And the full report as a PDF:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cf ... 002-12.pdf

David Taylor's video of the accident, a good overview of the incident, you can count the seconds Rob had to evaluate-decide-act:
http://vimeo.com/26291756

Hope this is of interest, and better, of use.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

If I were Mr. Davies, the new story would have went something like......

"pilot of the Skyairder landed fine and was unharmed until Rob Davies broke both of his kneecaps"

unless the Skyraider had a major mechanical failure causing his gross pilot error he would deserve every bit of it.

As for bailing out, the p-51 looked to have recovered but Davies wasn't sticking around to find out. It's a shame because his initial recovery maneuver was perfect before he jumped.

In the video I saw I remember him indicating there was no response from control input. Pretty sure he made the right choice.

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Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

My opinion: formation break ups like this should be banned/avoided.
Lima-Lima had a similar incident.
My two cents.
VL
( I'm very glad he survived)

The Skyraider pilot broke a cardinal rule of formation flying and everyone involved were lucky to have survived. The rule he broke was NEVER lose sight of your leader, those that have and tried to fly to where they thought the leader was usually ends up killing people. Vlado points out the Lima Lima, The Red Barons had the same thing happen and it cost 2 people their lives.

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook

I didn't post this thread to postmortem the accident again (it's been done, and the AAIB report is linked, including recommendations) but as an example where a pilot survived because he planned and prepared.

Thanks, PinecastleAAF, I'd thought that it was the video I posted where Rob stated he tried a control check, but the video wasn't. I do have a clear recollection that Rob stated this himself in an interview, and I'm trying to find it again. I think it may be the now-missing: http://www.itv.com/anglia/pilot-speaks- ... rash48488/

A couple of other points if I may; second guessing the decision to bale out needs to note:
- Had he left it less than a second longer, and if control wasn't available, he would be dead.
- The Mustang's tail surface controls run through the area deformed in the collision. The AAIB note the controls were still attached ("Despite the damage it was possible to confirm that the rudder and elevator operating cables had remained attached to their surfaces.") but could not speculate whether or not they would still be operable.

Also from the AAIB report:
"He realised from the control column being aft of the normal position that the aircraft was damaged and jettisoned the canopy with his right hand. He attempted to trim the aircraft for the best glide speed in preparation for a belly landing in the farmland ahead. When he relaxed the back pressure on the control column, the aircraft nose pitched down and he could feel a buffeting through the control column and airframe. He decided to abandon the aircraft and released his seat restraint harness with his left hand and then placed that hand on the left side of the cockpit.he put both feet on the floor and moved his right hand to the right side of the cockpit at the same time pushing up to stand up in the cockpit. As he released the control column, the aircraft pitched nose down..."

Importantly, Rob also discusses (in this other video, I recall!) how he had practiced (actually done) the bale outs from the aircraft in the hangar, and the required sequence of actions to do so. In the AAIB report, it's stated:
"The Mustang pilot had frequently rehearsed the sequence of actions needed to be completed when abandoning the aircraft and was able to exit the aircraft very quickly; a factor which was significant in the successful outcome. Other pilots who wear parachutes may benefit from regular practice and rehearsal of aircraft abandonment drills."

The point here is have you?

I posted this as a piece for people to think about if they would be prepared enough to do this as effectively and quickly if they had to from their aircraft.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I love the way people second guess the pilot for bailing out. They weren't in the aircraft with him. They weren't in his shoes. It was his neck if he tried to save the aircraft and failed, not their's. We have "data plate" rebuilds. Last time I checked I don't think we have pilot rebuilds.

I hated to see a beautiful P-51 get destroyed. But I'm happy the pilot got to fly another day.

Amen to that.

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Matt

Just disregard. I was going to post comment from the Accident Review 2011 but they are way too long.
DH

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Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

A link would be welcome.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Page 10

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cm9a5i6vs8hbr ... 3%20PM.pdf

_________________
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Thanks very much, Dudley. Very pertinent comments relating to the original purpose of this thread, and other aspects also. Good to read, recommended.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

still looking for a right wing for the LFA skyraider. if someone has an external wing in its backyard, will be nice.

yves

James, thanks for bringing this back to the fore. Dudley, as usual, your thoughts are well formed, well articulated, and much appreciated.

Coincidentally, I've been doing quite a bit of study lately learning 4 different types of airplane that are new to me as well as continuing to fly a couple types that are familiar. No matter the reputation for "simple" or "complex" a given type may have, I guarantee there are aspects to its operation that are both simple and complex - it just depends on which procedure or quirk you're referring to. The key seems to being able to sift through the pilot's handbooks, the hangar talk, the instructor's input, etc and come up with the responses you'll employ when faced with a short-list of maneuvers. (These responses can be book-verbatim or modified based on other knowledge & judgement).

What's a short-list look like? (certainly not all-inclusive):

-ground egress (with or without passenger(s))
-takeoff abort
-engine failure(s) at low altitude
-spin recovery/stall quirks
-smoke and/or fire in cabin, (electrical & otherwise)
-smoke/fire externally
-engine(s) power loss at cruise
-flight control/flap malfunction
-prop malfunction
-bailout
-landing gear malfunction
-go around/balked landing
-crosswind and/or wet runway technique
-departing the prepared surface
-quirks unique to that model (avionic, hydraulic, electric, oil, etc)

I try to be mindful that:

-the manuals don't always present every possible malfunction
-malfunctions don't always manifest the way the book describes
-airplanes modified over time may not behave the way the book intended
-little things such as seat belt types and gauge faces may not even match between front & rear cockpits on the same plane
-there may not be time or a free hand to read the book; you have to know at least the 1st few steps of each procedure

I do not claim to be the expert, rather the perpetual student; I try to keep my eyes & ears open in order to learn from these mishaps. It's human nature that we rarely hear of the near-miss or expertly averted disaster ... where I suspect some of the best piloting knowledge lives. Instead we normally only have the benefit of learning from those pilots where things were going horribly wrong, particularly when those pilots are fortunate enough to survive.

Davies' response after the mid-air was seemingly spot-on. Similar high kudos go to John for successfully putting Liberty Belle down without a scratch to her occupants.

There are folks who say, "It can't happen to me" but I think, "It would be better to be ready if it does."

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Granted, I'm not a pilot......but, to me its pretty obvious in the video why he bails out. After the impact, the aircraft sort of stabilises back in the original direction of flight, but it never really noses up to climb.... the best he seems to get is a reduction in the descent rate.....thus the obvious conclusion is that there is serious flight control damage of some sort and he chooses to bailout rather than continue a losing attempt to save it.....At some point any pilot has to decide is it saveable or not? or are you willing to die trying?
I believe any pilot flying such a "high" performance aircraft or really any aircraft, should have the training others here have talked about, so they can make that snap decision instead of becoming fixated on recovering the unrecoverable......no matter how valuable the aircraft is, your life is worth more.....